Applied a bath cell to Saturn SL2 + results

[Smiley]

I used the information from this site to create my first cell.

First cell: 6 SS plates (2.5" X 6") configured +-+-+- enclosed in a 4" ABS tube. Electrolyte was a 50/50 mix of distilled water and distilled white viniger. I netted very little production (approximatley .25 lpm). I went ahead and installed it in my car anyway for one tank of gas. After 300 miles I netted 32 mpg @ 75 mph.

I removed the system and drove the car for one tank of gas without the HHO device while I redesigned it. I netted 30 mpg @ 75 mph. Not enough to conclude a difference.

I changed my electrolyte to distilled water and baking soda. It lasted one second and blew my 30 amp fuse. I reconfigured the cell adding one more plate: + N - N + N -. Wires stayed cool as well as the solution. Production increased to approximately 1 lpm. I installed it back into my car and drove 300 miles. Again, I netted 32 mpg.

Shouldn't 1 lpm make a significant difference for a 1.9 liter engine?

My next experiment was to unhook the oxygen sensor with and without the device. That should allow the computer to default to a set air fuel mixture regardless of the hydrogen input.

The big question is will this hurt my car? Anyone else try this?

The Saturn is an OBDII 1996 with 156k.

Thanks for any input.

[jm3000x]

I used the information from this site to create my first cell.

First cell: 6 SS plates (2.5" X 6") configured +-+-+- enclosed in a 4" ABS tube. Electrolyte was a 50/50 mix of distilled water and distilled white viniger. I netted very little production (approximatley .25 lpm). I went ahead and installed it in my car anyway for one tank of gas. After 300 miles I netted 32 mpg @ 75 mph.

I removed the system and drove the car for one tank of gas without the HHO device while I redesigned it. I netted 30 mpg @ 75 mph. Not enough to conclude a difference.

I changed my electrolyte to distilled water and baking soda. It lasted one second and blew my 30 amp fuse. I reconfigured the cell adding one more plate: + N - N + N -. Wires stayed cool as well as the solution. Production increased to approximately 1 lpm. I installed it back into my car and drove 300 miles. Again, I netted 32 mpg.

Shouldn't 1 lpm make a significant difference for a 1.9 liter engine?

My next experiment was to unhook the oxygen sensor with and without the device. That should allow the computer to default to a set air fuel mixture regardless of the hydrogen input.

The big question is will this hurt my car? Anyone else try this?

The Saturn is an OBDII 1996 with 156k.

Thanks for any input.
Not good. If you unplug the O2 sensor, it will cause the engine computer (ECU) to go into "open loop" mode, since it will think the sensor has failed. Open loop is designed to keep the engine operating within a specific set of pre-designated parameters to prevent damage in the event of one or more failed components. This prevents catastrophic engine failure when it is not receiving the required input from sensor(s) and allows you to drive until repair can be done, however is not good in terms of MPG. I would advise using an EFIE device, to modify the signal from the oxygen sensor to compensate for the increased combustion efficiency brought about from the induction of HHO into the engine. The HHO used without the EFIE will produce results like you noticed (1-3 MPG increase) in the beginning, until the engine computer adapts to the increased presence of oxygen in the air fuel mixture, and will upgrade the fuel output to compensate since it will think the engine is running lean. In order to trick the ECM into cutting back the fuel, and realize significant gains, you'll need to modify the O2 sensors signal. On that engine, you should be able to really boost mileage once you have the system dialed in. Good luck!

[H2OPWR]

I used the information from this site to create my first cell.

First cell: 6 SS plates (2.5" X 6") configured +-+-+- enclosed in a 4" ABS tube. Electrolyte was a 50/50 mix of distilled water and distilled white viniger. I netted very little production (approximatley .25 lpm). I went ahead and installed it in my car anyway for one tank of gas. After 300 miles I netted 32 mpg @ 75 mph.

I removed the system and drove the car for one tank of gas without the HHO device while I redesigned it. I netted 30 mpg @ 75 mph. Not enough to conclude a difference.

I changed my electrolyte to distilled water and baking soda. It lasted one second and blew my 30 amp fuse. I reconfigured the cell adding one more plate: + N - N + N -. Wires stayed cool as well as the solution. Production increased to approximately 1 lpm. I installed it back into my car and drove 300 miles. Again, I netted 32 mpg.

Shouldn't 1 lpm make a significant difference for a 1.9 liter engine?

My next experiment was to unhook the oxygen sensor with and without the device. That should allow the computer to default to a set air fuel mixture regardless of the hydrogen input.

The big question is will this hurt my car? Anyone else try this?

The Saturn is an OBDII 1996 with 156k.

Thanks for any input.

Your similar results are because as you add more HHO you will get more oxygen in your exhaust stream causing the ECM to richen your air fuel sensor mixture. Do not unplug your O2 sensor. You will naturally get better fuel economy with the sensor functioning then without. Unplugged your ECM will go into closed loop (limp mode) your car will run full rich. Any test results would be tainted.

[Smiley]

Thanks for the reply folks. I realize my MPG would suffer but it would be a sure fire way to see if the mpg increases with the HHO without any input from the ECM. I realize that leaning out the mixture will increase mpg regardless of the HHO. How much is the question. I want to be able to prove to myself that this system works before I go out and spend more money.

So many folks claim this to be a scam. I just want to prove it for myself that it is not.

[Smiley]

Is there a way to manipulate the oxygen sensor to force it to a lean condition?

[HHOinKY]

Is there a way to manipulate the oxygen sensor to force it to a lean condition?

Take spark-plug non-foulers, drill them out and space the 02 sensor away from the exhaust.

[Painless]

Is there a way to manipulate the oxygen sensor to force it to a lean condition?

Another very cheap way to manipulate your sensor would be to build and install a poor mans EFIE:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t39/Bingerz_photos/HHO%20Project/EFIESimpleCircuit.jpg

[Smiley]

Thanks for both of the ideas!

I will give them a try (or one at least). Anyone heard of wrapping the sensor in foil? From what I have read you wrap the external part. How does this work and has anyone tried it?

[daddymikey1975]

You should also consider usind Sodium Hydroxide instead of baking soda. Baking soda will eat up your plates in short order.

Also make sure you're using a bubbler or flash arrestor.

mike

[VanHalen]

From what I have heard, this makes the o2 sensor heat and stay heated, which throws it into one if its loops, can't remember which. I did this with mine, no difference noticed. The o2 spacer idea is that the outflow of exhaust will create a vacuum around the o2 sensor, and it will read more o2, and thinking its running rich, will lean out the engine. I would suggest the efie though.

[HHOinKY]

efie is best. o2 extebders are decent. Nev er wrap the sensor.

[Smiley]

Thanks again folks. Great info.

I am not running a bubbler and I have the cell controlled by a toggle switch. I know this is not the best way to go. I went into a store one day and forgot to turn off the switch. When I started the car the engine raced until it burned all of the hydrogen that built up in the intake. It was pretty funny, and yes, it could have been very bad. I will wire it to the ignition once I see an appreciable gain.

I think I will go to an electronics store and build the poor mans EFEI. It looks very inexpensive to make.

Mikey, I would use sodium hydroxide instead but I am having trouble finding it locally.

Once I have the EFEI made, how do you know where to start from and make adjustments?

[DaneDHorstead]

Thanks again folks. Great info.

I am not running a bubbler and I have the cell controlled by a toggle switch. I know this is not the best way to go. I went into a store one day and forgot to turn off the switch. When I started the car the engine raced until it burned all of the hydrogen that built up in the intake. It was pretty funny, and yes, it could have been very bad. I will wire it to the ignition once I see an appreciable gain.

I think I will go to an electronics store and build the poor mans EFEI. It looks very inexpensive to make.

Mikey, I would use sodium hydroxide instead but I am having trouble finding it locally.

Once I have the EFEI made, how do you know where to start from and make adjustments?
You're lucky it only raced, to burn the excess HHO!

One member forgot to turn his off, and he blew the entire manifold off the car, and into a million pcs.

Exploding hydrogen has far more power, than imagined.

To answer your former question about sceptics...

Most sceptics, have never tried it, and about 110% of them don't understand what it actually does!

They all say you can't get more out of it, than you put into it (energy, that is).

But in truth, the hydrogen molecules are approximately 1/16 the size of the oxygen molecule.

The smaller molecules are squeezed to the outside edges (around the rings), as the compressin stroke comes. The hydrogen explodes 3.5 times hotter, and being pushed to the outer (and lower) edges of the cylinder, the flame causes most of the purchased fuel, to burn!


Most people don't realize, that an internal combustion engine, is only efficient to about 20 to maybe 30 percent. Meaning that of the gas/diesel you put in your tank (without HHO), you are only burning a very small percentage of it, while the vast majority of it goes out the tail pipe. That is why catalytic converters were designed, to burn additional "unused gas/diesel"

In reality, it is not the HHO that you are using as fuel! You are using the HHO, to better consume the gasoline, or diesel, by providing a much hotter explosion.

Does that make sense, now?

[Smiley]

Very good explenation Dane. Thanks.

Im sure I was very lucky. I dont have much money in my little Saturn so any catastrophic failure would be more funny than anything else provided there is no injury... even then it might still be funny. Im a bit morbid I suppose.

I will try the EFEI. It might be a bit as I am currenty working the graveyard shift. Ill have more time when I move to day shift.

[fisher]

Painless, Im much interested in your circuit. What is it intended to do? Looks like it puts an adjustable voltage, somewhere between zero and a half of a volt out to the ECM. At least considering just the circuit and ignoring any input from the 02 sensor that is what it would do.

I could build it without a battery by installing a couple of resistors and using the 12 volts from the battery as a power supply. Would save having to install a battery. Considering that a car generates 13.5 volts, and you want to get rid of 12 volts so as to be left with 1.5 and not have a battery, you would need a 12K resistor and a 1.5K resistor. (both standard sizes.) Connect them in series, 12K on top. The come off top and bottom of the 1.5K to your circuit, with the 1.5K sitting where you show a battery, and you would have the same circuit without having to buy batteries.

So I just admitted that I don't understand what your circuit does, but that I can modify it. I not crazy. I really not.

[Painless]

Painless, Im much interested in your circuit. What is it intended to do? Looks like it puts an adjustable voltage, somewhere between zero and a half of a volt out to the ECM. At least considering just the circuit and ignoring any input from the 02 sensor that is what it would do.

I could build it without a battery by installing a couple of resistors and using the 12 volts from the battery as a power supply. Would save having to install a battery. Considering that a car generates 13.5 volts, and you want to get rid of 12 volts so as to be left with 1.5 and not have a battery, you would need a 12K resistor and a 1.5K resistor. (both standard sizes.) Connect them in series, 12K on top. The come off top and bottom of the 1.5K to your circuit, with the 1.5K sitting where you show a battery, and you would have the same circuit without having to buy batteries.

So I just admitted that I don't understand what your circuit does, but that I can modify it. I not crazy. I really not.

Fisher,

That circuit is a 'voltage adder', it takes the output from the O2 sensor and adds voltage to it by utilising a series connection of the two voltages. The second connection from the O2 sensor signal that goes to the pot ground is just to ensure that the output from our circuit never drops below the original O2 signal.

Using the vehicle electrical system is not advisable, as voltage can fluctuate a fair amount which will also mess with the signals to the O2 sensor. A better idea is to use a 5v voltage regulator, which will ensure a smooth voltage signal.

I've since stopped using the voltage adder and started using an adjustable voltage regulator to replace the bias or ground signal to my oxygen sensors. My O2's are unusual in that they are narrowband and receive a 2.5v bias instead of a ground (0v) bias, therefore, they send a varying signal between 2.5 and 3.5 volts to the ECU. My circuit replaces the 2.5v signal with it's own, so for example if I wanted to add 200 millivolts to my O2 signal, I would adjust my regulator to 2.7v.

Russ.

[fisher]

Painless, cool, sounds like you have it figured out pretty well. I am not to the point yet to know if I will need to modify my O2 sensors, but if so, you have taught me some good info on how to do it. Thanks.

[Painless]

Painless, cool, sounds like you have it figured out pretty well. I am not to the point yet to know if I will need to modify my O2 sensors, but if so, you have taught me some good info on how to do it. Thanks.

You're most welcome, fisher, but also bare in mind that my O2's were an unusual case, hence my adjustable voltage regulator. A proper EFIE, if you can spend the money, would be my suggestion. The poor mans EFIE is an alternative to help with costs.

One step, one change at a time and monitor results is always the best way.

Russ.