Ethanol

[joe38socalif]

Any one here AGAINST the Blending of Ethanol in the gas?

let me know by posting if you for it or against it.

[Painless]

I would say that I'm against it, from what I've read of people that have done extensive research it prohibits efficient gasoline vapourisation and hence reduces MPG.

[triple88a]

I'm against it 100%, besides the fact that Ethanol is weak fuel, it the long range is just masking the real problem. Back in 1970, the national clean air act was created because research that started 1955 proved what pollution does to life. What did the act do? It set some crappy standards instead of looking for another solution. This masked the problem a bit however you can clearly see where this has gotten us today. We have doubled the CO2 levels in under 100 years, people are getting killed because of oil.. not good. Look where masking the problem has gotten us. There are many other examples however since i dont want to write a book i'm going to cut this short.

Ethanol is just masking the problem AGAIN. Next problem that arises is since Ethanol is weak you will need more of it to get the same distance. More ethanol means you need more crops to make the ethanol. Back in 06 only 4% of all the fuel sold was ethanol. That 4% of ethanol needed over 25% of the crops made in the USA. Get the idea? So much crops made so little fuel.

You ask where i get my facts? Over 2 months of good (copyrighted) research from last semester as that was my final paper in (College) chemistry.

[Super Fuel FX]

Count me as against ethanol. It is 20% less efficient, and causes problems with adding acetone to increase gas mileage. Take into consideration the energy that it takes to till the ground, plant the seeds, harvest the corn, and what ever else is involved to bring it in. Also, I think that there will be more problems with the prices of the corn. More farmers will grow/switch to corn for fuel production instead of feeding the family. Other crops will probably cost more as well. Just my O.

[coffeeachiever]

I drink half gallon+ of milk per day (can't stomach beer). Several months ago I asked my grocer why the price of milk had almost doubled. He said that much of the corn that had been used for animal feed was now being used for the production of ethanol. He said that dairy farmers were having to pay so much more for the feed that the cost of all dairy products had to go up.

There is a weed that grows abundantly ( I wish I could remember what it is ) that produces ten times more ethanol per acre than corn. I guess there is more demand for corn though. It's easier to charge more for the corn than the weed. Leave it to the profiteers to continue to lube up the public anus.

[Boltazar]

For all of the above reasons I'm against Ethanol

[triple88a]

There is a weed that grows abundantly ( I wish I could remember what it is ) that produces ten times more ethanol per acre than corn. I guess there is more demand for corn though. It's easier to charge more for the corn than the weed. Leave it to the profiteers to continue to lube up the public anus.

you sure you are not thinking of sugar cane?

[Super Fuel FX]

Or another Cane... er... that would be Cani. Sorry:p

[coffeeachiever]

you sure you are not thinking of sugar cane?

No, it was sedge grass or something obscure like that. I remember watching a special on alternative fuels and they were talking about how fast it grew and how much better it is than corn. I'll try and find it if I've got some down time at work tomorrow.

[coffeeachiever]

Or another Cane... er... that would be Cani. Sorry:p

You burn that somewhere besides the engine brother.

[triple88a]

Either way, i guess the government growing weed is legal but for every one else, its not. That's some serious democracy for ya. I wont even get into the freedom debates.

[Painless]

Either way, i guess the government growing weed is legal but for every one else, its not. That's some serious democracy for ya. I wont even get into the freedom debates.

Probably a good job people don't know it's weed, or you'd have the stoners sucking on your exhaust pipe when you stop at the lights.

[Stevo]

Probably a good job people don't know it's weed, or you'd have the stoners sucking on your exhaust pipe when you stop at the lights.

Haa. Then your vehicle would eventually become completely apathetic and refuse to hail to "the man". In place of spare tires, bricks of weed and the headlamps would stay all cracked and hazy. Lots of resin build-up on the intake valves too. LOL.:)

I really think that Ethanol is a generally bad idea all around. Counter intuitive when you think about the effect on MPG versus the effect on emissions (I'm assuming that's the only reason why it would be used). Every bone in my body wants me to call it a waste of time, but you never know.. maybe it just isn't being utilized correctly.

[joe38socalif]

if anyone would like to join the fight against this crap let me know, ill give you a web address to join in the fight. there are opening in most every state.

[coffeeachiever]

Go ahead and post it Joe, so we can check it out.

[joe38socalif]

here is the web site.


http://www.e0pc.com/


when you sign up tell him Joe From Florida sent you.

[screwballl]

I am against Ethanol and have been since it first showed up in South Dakota at least 15 years ago. At that time, cars were not made to handle it so all sorts of things got fouled up... from TBI/EFI injectors blowing out/burning up to piston ring oxidation in aluminum blocks among other things, you were lucky to get more than 60,000 miles from an engine using nothing but E10 (10% ethanol). Nowadays they have better options with new cars (2003-newer) that can handle it properly for over 200,000 miles.

I am only against it using the current feed stock. Growing up in rural areas, you learned pretty early on that there was a massive scare (late 80s, early 90s) where corn was produced in such great quantities that some farmers simply threw tarps over thousands of tons of it hoping the market bounced back rather than sell it for a potential loss or break even. This is when the farmers lobbyists (like Daschle from SD) punched through some sort of mandate that allowed for them to 1) get rid of the excess corn, and 2) make a market that will remain high for a few decades.

Enter Ethanol.

Now another interesting bit is that locally in northwest FL, I have not found a single gas station that has the E10 blend labeled (outside of a few in Pensacola carrying E85, but no E10). Even if they did (or I find out they are selling it without labeling it), I would not put it in my vehicles because I have seen what it does to engines, and as I have a 91 truck with TBI, and a 04 Durango with 4.7L, these were not made for Ethanol in any way.

I find Ethanol (the way it is currently used and marketed) is a massive scam.
10% Ethanol = 20-30% lower gas mileage
10% Ethanol = 2-5% lower price at the pump per gallon

Doing the math:

Say the 10% Ethanol is at $2.00 a gallon versus regular non-ethanol is $2.05 per gallon, and you drive a vehicle getting 20mpg with non-ethanol (15 gallon tank, as an example).

15Gal @ 2.05 = $30.75
15Gal @ 2.00 = $30.00

20mpg x 15 Gal = 300 miles

Now using E10, lets say there is a 25% drop in mileage (15mpg), as 25% has been my experience when using Ethanol:

15mpg x 15Gal = 225 miles per tank

30.75 / 300 = $0.1025 per mile to drive NOT using Ethanol
30.00 / 225 = $0.1333 per mile to drive using E10

Now per year, average 15,000 miles:

$1,537.50 using regular
$1,999.50 using E10

$462 per year savings

Now look at this over 100,000 miles:

$13,330 = cost to use E10
$10,250 = cost to NOT use E10
----------------------------------------------------

Ok so now lets look at a 5mpg increase using HHO which does not have a "per gallon price", although if it did for a stable system, it would be less than a penny per gallon.

25mpg x 15 gal = 375 miles per tank
This equals $0.082 per mile
15,000 miles = $1230
100,000 = $8,200

----------------------------------------------------

For $10 per year in supplies and upkeep to get that 5mpg increase, you are saving $300 per year in gas.
Versus save 5 cents per gallon at the pump but end up paying $460 MORE per year just to say you use a "cleaner fuel".

Sorry for the long post but I hope this turns a few heads.

[Painless]

Your points are definitely valid, screwball.

I am also finding that gas stations here in Maryland are not marking the ethanol usage on their pumps. I have given up trying to find a gas station that does not add it to their fuel.

I'm currently filling up at a BP station in Seaford, DE. Their gas is currently $1.67 per gallon for regular, which is a few cents more than anywhere else, but other gas stations (such as WaWa) are causing my mileage to drop even further. As for my wifes Hyundai Elantra, some stations gas will drop her mileage by almost 40%!!

The greed has to stop. Land of the free and commerically oppressed.

[triple88a]

here in illnois its impossible to find anything less than 10E blend. I have seen some gas stations as high as 20 however nothing less than that. Perhaps racing fuel might not have that crap in there?

[screwballl]

racing fuel is almost 100% Alcohol (which is pretty much in the same family as Ethanol)...

and many places use Ethanol to increase the Octane rating.