Size of bubblers

[midnight1957]

Does the size of the bubblers really matter? I am short on space as everyone is and I have enough room to put maybe 2 each 2inch bubblers about 6 inches tall or maybe 2 each 3inch bublers about 6 inches tall.
I don't really see why they should have to be any bigger than that, someone please correct me and tell me where I am wrong at?

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade

[daddymikey1975]

Since you're limited on space, I would use one as a bubbler and the other as a water trap.

The reason for this is that with a limited size bubbler, and the motion of driving, you may end up with unwanted water occasionally in your output line. The water trap would serve as the remedy for this rather well.

The water trap could easily be a bubbler without the water. That way any water that makes it's way OUT of the bubbler would stay in the water trap.

Remember to incorporate a drain mechanism into the water trap though.

I hope this helps.
mike

[Painless]

Wade,

If you're using a caustic base catalyst, such as KOH or NaOH, please ensure that your bubbler is at least condensing out the water vapor. You could build a cleansing bubbler like my design quite easily in a smaller space, it's definitely important to put in this extra effort if you're using base catalysts.

Russ.

[BoyntonStu]

Wade,

If you're using a caustic base catalyst, such as KOH or NaOH, please ensure that your bubbler is at least condensing out the water vapor. You could build a cleansing bubbler like my design quite easily in a smaller space, it's definitely important to put in this extra effort if you're using base catalysts.

Russ.

Russ,

There are some who just use water vapor and have seen gains.

Why eliminate anything positive unless proven negative?

BoyntonStu

Any MPG change with your air restriction?

[Painless]

Russ,

There are some who just use water vapor and have seen gains.

Why eliminate anything positive unless proven negative?

BoyntonStu

Any MPG change with your air restriction?

Stu,

The movement of KOH or NaOH within the water vapor into the engine has already been proven negative with respect to aluminum engine parts, such as the pitting on my throttle body and also the damage that Smith03Jetta found in his setup.

Here's an experiment for anyone in doubt. Mix up a solution of KOH / NaOH electrolyte, not necessarily strong, and place it inside a gallon milk container or similar. Cut up an aluminum can and put it inside the container then seal the screw on lid tight. After 24 hours, note how the container has swelled from hydrogen production with the aluminum and then release the pressure and careully cut open the container so that you can inspect the aluminum from the can. Do this outside as other gases are also produced and do not breath the vapors.

I agree wholeheartedly about the benefits of water vapor, but I would not recommend piping it to the engine when it is a transport for KOH / NaOH.

No MPG improvements yet, I'm going to further restrict this weekend as well as helping get that warmer air into the airbox.

Russ.

[BoyntonStu]

Russ,

If the Hydroxy bubbles through a water/vinegar 1st bubbler to neutralize the alkali and then though a plain water bubbler, the vapor should be inert.

Do you use an air stone?

Do you add vinegar?

BoyntonStu

[midnight1957]

OK guys, lets go back to my original question, does the size of the bubbler matter?

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade

[Painless]

Russ,

If the Hydroxy bubbles through a water/vinegar 1st bubbler to neutralize the alkali and then though a plain water bubbler, the vapor should be inert.

Do you use an air stone?

Do you add vinegar?

BoyntonStu

Stu,

Consider that within each bubble, no matter how small, only the outer part of the bubble will touch the vinegar and be neutralised. At the atomic level, there will still be a fair amount of it left. I tried an air stone and could still see the white mist in the HHO. The bubbler was holding distilled white vinegar alone.

My cleansing bubbler employs a condenser (the spiralling tube) which is cooled by the distilled water or vinegar around it (airflow is a must!) and forces the water vapor back to liquid form.

It may be possible that a straight vinegar bubbler will work at lower concentrations of electrolyte, but I mix mine fairly strong. It's possible that my approach could be overkill for some setups, but it's not that complicated or expensive to build so why not be safe rather than sorry?

By the way, my experience with the air stones was that they crumble rather quickly and break apart once in water. Not sure why this is as I would expect them to hold up in the environment they are designed for! I bought a two pack of the bulb kind and neither lasted very long for some reason before they broke apart. They also do a kind on a strip which is encased in plastic, maybe they hold up better.

Russ.

[BoyntonStu]

Stu,

Consider that within each bubble, no matter how small, only the outer part of the bubble will touch the vinegar and be neutralised. At the atomic level, there will still be a fair amount of it left. I tried an air stone and could still see the white mist in the HHO. The bubbler was holding distilled white vinegar alone.

My cleansing bubbler employs a condenser (the spiralling tube) which is cooled by the distilled water or vinegar around it (airflow is a must!) and forces the water vapor back to liquid form.

It may be possible that a straight vinegar bubbler will work at lower concentrations of electrolyte, but I mix mine fairly strong. It's possible that my approach could be overkill for some setups, but it's not that complicated or expensive to build so why not be safe rather than sorry?

By the way, my experience with the air stones was that they crumble rather quickly and break apart once in water. Not sure why this is as I would expect them to hold up in the environment they are designed for! I bought a two pack of the bulb kind and neither lasted very long for some reason before they broke apart. They also do a kind on a strip which is encased in plastic, maybe they hold up better.

Russ.

Russ,

Check this out:

http://www.petdiscounters.com/Air-Diffusers-c64.html

There is a way of making very, very, fine bubbles.


Do you have photos of your bubbler/condenser?

BoyntonStu

[H2OPWR]

OK guys, lets go back to my original question, does the size of the bubbler matter?

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade

If you are not using the bubbler to condense the water vapor in the cell output but only as a flashback protector I would not think that the size would matter as much. Like previosly posted I would be concerned about water entering the output line and entering the engine.

[Painless]

Russ,

Check this out:

http://www.petdiscounters.com/Air-Diffusers-c64.html

There is a way of making very, very, fine bubbles.


Do you have photos of your bubbler/condenser?

BoyntonStu

I don't have any photos, other than of the outside which isn't much use. The bubbler is constructed from a 12" piece of 3" wide PVC with an end cap and inspection cap on the top. The HHO enters through the side of the pipe, close to the top of the bubbler and then travels down the tightly packed 'condenser' hose in a spiral to the bottom where it exits into the fluid. The inspection cap has a hose barb to let the HHO out.

You've probably seen this before, but it's the only diagram I have and is fairly self explanatory.

http://www.hhoknowhow.info/~russ/images/Cleansing_Bubbler.JPG (http://www.hhoknowhow.info/%7Eruss/images/Cleansing_Bubbler.JPG)

Russ.