No production?

[DrBrown]

I have posted pics of my project a few times but here's the cell design again for those who have not seen it:
http://www.designbydan.com/pt/cell2.jpg

http://www.designbydan.com/pt/cell5.jpg

The neutral and negative plates are all just over 1/16" apart and the center + plate has ~1/8" gap between the neutrals. Here's the deal....the cell is mounted in a 4" PVC container. Sealed cap on bottom and screw in cap on top that has not been sealed YET. It has 1/4" SS allthread from cap thru lid where the straps bolt onto the terminals(not touching bath). I didn't use any sealer around the ss rods where it goes thru the lid, just ss nuts to hold the rods in place. My container holds 1.5L of water. Using 1-1/4 tablesp of Sodium Hydroxide(ZEP Crystal Drain Openner (http://www.zepcommercial.com/products.asp?category=11)) and 12v from a battery charger @ 10 amps the cell warms up to 95-100* F after an hour making fair amounts of fizz and a few large bubbles. I have a 1/2" ID hose coming off the cap into a bucket of water and got literally ZERO bubbles??? It's making HHO and you can clearly see the bubbles w/ the lid off. I would guess the production to be less than 0.5LPM based on youtube vids I've seen. I will try to get a video but I was curious how much power it takes to push bubbles thru a 1/2" ID 4 foot hose because Im not getting any bubbles. :confused: Maybe the cap is leaky and not forcing the gas into the hose? Help...I GOTS NO BUBBLES! :(

[mytoyotasucks]

u need more amps to start and more volts also.

some people like this configuration - ive tried it and didnt like at all - i use 5 plates instead of the seven ur double 7 - or even try a double 5.
and urs would be classiffied as a double cell and needs more amps to work good.

[H2OPWR]

I have posted pics of my project a few times but here's the cell design again for those who have not seen it:
http://www.designbydan.com/pt/cell2.jpg

http://www.designbydan.com/pt/cell5.jpg

The neutral and negative plates are all just over 1/16" apart and the center + plate has ~1/8" gap between the neutrals. Here's the deal....the cell is mounted in a 4" PVC container. Sealed cap on bottom and screw in cap on top that has not been sealed YET. It has 1/4" SS allthread from cap thru lid where the straps bolt onto the terminals(not touching bath). I didn't use any sealer around the ss rods where it goes thru the lid, just ss nuts to hold the rods in place. My container holds 1.5L of water. Using 1-1/4 tablesp of Sodium Hydroxide(ZEP Crystal Drain Openner (http://www.zepcommercial.com/products.asp?category=11)) and 12v from a battery charger @ 10 amps the cell warms up to 95-100* F after an hour making fair amounts of fizz and a few large bubbles. I have a 1/2" ID hose coming off the cap into a bucket of water and got literally ZERO bubbles??? It's making HHO and you can clearly see the bubbles w/ the lid off. I would guess the production to be less than 0.5LPM based on youtube vids I've seen. I will try to get a video but I was curious how much power it takes to push bubbles thru a 1/2" ID 4 foot hose because Im not getting any bubbles. :confused: Maybe the cap is leaky and not forcing the gas into the hose? Help...I GOTS NO BUBBLES! :(

If you are getting visual bubbles but nothing through the bubbler you have leaks. It does not take much pressure for the gas to exit the hose. I only use 3/8 ID hose and get bubbles within seconds in the bubbler even if I turn the cell way down and produce .5 lpm. Just a suggestion submerge your whole sealed unit in water and look and see if and where gas is excaping.

[vscgraphics]

try more electrolyte. I am using a design with 8plates -nnnnnn+ in a 4" pvc. I have my amps up around 18amps. Temp does not get too hot.

I did find out it seemed like I needed alot more drain cleaner the what most people reported. I have not done a LPM test yet. I am getting good bubble prduction

[overtaker]

I like that idea better then a squirt bottle filled with soapy water.( dipping whole booster in water )

[DrBrown]

Could have a larger bath (1L +) aid in cooling the entire cell??

vscgraphics, I can tell you for certain you would need even more catalyst than me because if your plates are closely spaced you would be lucky to get 1.7v between each "cell". Which is just barely over what is required for the bubble reaction.

With 14v and the extra amperage from the car running it might produce quite a bit more as well. Im going to reseal the top cap and screw hole and see what that gets me.

[theramsey3]

If I'm not mistaken it looks like you have a 4" screw in cap on the top of the cell. Did you use any teflon tape on the threads? Are the bolts going through the cap sealed in any way? The first cell that I experimented with was similar to yours and I had a similar problem I had lots production inside the cell and very low output in a make shift bubbler (5gal bucket to observe bubbling [early testing = primitive, anxious]) I used some teflon tape and marine goop and fixed the leaks to find that I was only making .75 - 1.2 lpm and changed my thought process about electrolyte and cell design(slightly, more plates and KOH)and wound up with 1.6 - 2.0 lpm drawing 28 -32 amps then i found heat and melted a few caps until i discovered the concept of wrapping the cell to prevent leak current and self recirculation into a reservoir. I applaud you for your cell design very well thought out and looks nice. good luck and let us know where or why it is leaking/ having no output

[daddymikey1975]

I would follow all instructions for sealing the cell, however, you have too many plates for only using 12 volts.. your voltage per gap would be lower than 2 volts..

also I would remove the large gap between the center plate and the adjacent neutrals... it makes it tougher to force the current through that gap without more electrolyte, but if you add more electrolyte that would create more heat with the 1/16" gap you have elsewhere..

(make sense??)

other than that, fix the leaks and you should be good to go.

mike

[theramsey3]

I agree with the plate being removed from each cell and think you should close the gap also in my own experimentation I have found that I like the +nnnn-nnnn+ more than the +nnnnn-nnnnn+ you will get alot more production and a little extra heat but as long as you manage your amperage (through electrolyte and/or a PWM) you shouldn't have any problems and even if you do stay with the five neutrals close the gap between the center plate and the outers

[DrBrown]

This is definitely for a 13.8-14.0v application on a vehicle so eventually it will be pushing 14v which is why I have the 6 plate gaps. I agree the large gap on the center plate sucks. I ordered 100 7/32" thick jam nuts from McMaster and I need a thinner nut, which is impossile to find locally. So I think what Im going to do is just put another center plate in facing the opposite direction and put the strap right between them so there's 1/16" gap between everything. But that means I have to tear it all apart again and hope the nylon threads survive lol. Thanks for the suggestions folks! I will make some changes and post my videos tonight.

[daddymikey1975]

the nylon threaded rod should hold up well.. I did a similar build and tore it apart almost 7 or 8 times and the rod is still intact.

if you're gonna be bench testing it, use some jumper cables from your car (running) if you don't have a power supply capable of producing 13-14 volts.

just my .02

let us know how it goes.

mike

[vscgraphics]

i am producing plenty of bubbles!! not much heat. my alternator is putting out 16.67 volts on my dodge durango

I have not checked volts per plate

[daddymikey1975]

WOW... 16.67 volts...

watch the heat buildup... if you DO get any heat (and you may not at all) but if you do get some heat, it wouldnt hurt to have an extra plate in there.

good job with achieving bubbles now.

keep us posted.

mike