View Full Version : v-8 powered cell
Realtyroy
11-02-2008, 07:55 PM
No not a v-8 with a booster cell a series of cells powered by a v-8 ignition system.
I woke up one night with a picture of how this would change the world :D
Figure 8 cells, 16 plates total wired alternating pos, neg. Tie all the negative together and to ground. Take a v-8 distributor and run all the positives to the cap on the distributor where the plug wires go. Wire the distributor as you normally would if it was going into a car and spin the distributor with a wiper motor.
My thought was I would have ignition voltage of about 15k going through the water on a pulsating type current and it would put out like nobody's business.
Are you picturing this so far? Well it didn't work :(
It seemed like a good idea but absolutely no production. Not sure why.
Have any of you thought about doing anything like this or maybe you have beat me to it and it did or didn't work. Any idea's why it didn't work? I figured I would have tons of production at about 10amps.
Give me your thoughts, is this totally a waste of time or is there something you think I might try.
thanks,
Roy
mytoyotasucks
11-02-2008, 08:14 PM
lots of volts no amps.
No not a v-8 with a booster cell a series of cells powered by a v-8 ignition system.
I woke up one night with a picture of how this would change the world :D
Figure 8 cells, 16 plates total wired alternating pos, neg. Tie all the negative together and to ground. Take a v-8 distributor and run all the positives to the cap on the distributor where the plug wires go. Wire the distributor as you normally would if it was going into a car and spin the distributor with a wiper motor.
My thought was I would have ignition voltage of about 15k going through the water on a pulsating type current and it would put out like nobody's business.
Are you picturing this so far? Well it didn't work :(
It seemed like a good idea but absolutely no production. Not sure why.
Have any of you thought about doing anything like this or maybe you have beat me to it and it did or didn't work. Any idea's why it didn't work? I figured I would have tons of production at about 10amps.
Give me your thoughts, is this totally a waste of time or is there something you think I might try.
thanks,
Roy
Do you think instead of ignition voltage running 12vdc with higher amps might work out better.I know I'm going out on a thin limb here but this may bear further research.Were you trying to create a different type of resonance drive using the pulses to simulate the same principle as harmonics?If you can run it high enough rpms then it would be like running 8 cells as one using the standard 12vdc at say 20 to 30 amps.With higher rpms the cells would be on almost continuous current.
Darn Roy now I'm not going to sleep tonight. LOL
geezer
11-02-2008, 11:19 PM
just a thought but every thing i have read says it must be square wave pulse not spike or saw tooth.
Realtyroy
11-03-2008, 12:20 AM
Do you think instead of ignition voltage running 12vdc with higher amps might work out better.I know I'm going out on a thin limb here but this may bear further research.Were you trying to create a different type of resonance drive using the pulses to simulate the same principle as harmonics?If you can run it high enough rpms then it would be like running 8 cells as one using the standard 12vdc at say 20 to 30 amps.With higher rpms the cells would be on almost continuous current.
Darn Roy now I'm not going to sleep tonight. LOL
Losing sleep over this hobby has happened to me more than once. :rolleyes: I keep reading about the different frequency's and resonance and harmonics and thought this pulsating current would be interesting to try. I figured the bite you get if you get a hold of a coil wire while the rig is running tells me their is some amperage there but I really don't know how much. I was going to try a 12 volt RV furnace motor which turns at a much higher rpm than the wiper motor but having bad results with my first experiment I probably will not.
Back to the old drawing board:( Maybe someone will come up with an idea to make this work, who knows?
Roy
Realtyroy
11-03-2008, 12:26 AM
lots of volts no amps.
There is no problem jumping the gap on a spark plug at nearly 1/16" for the late model stuff I thought it would be a fun thing to try.
I might need to take a brake from this stuff to clear my head a little bit:D
Roy
Realtyroy
11-03-2008, 12:27 AM
just a thought but every thing i have read says it must be square wave pulse not spike or saw tooth.
I'll have to do a little more research on that!
Thanks,
Roy
HiTechRedNeck73
11-03-2008, 03:05 AM
ok, here's my opinion...
first, the jolt you get from grabbing a plug wire while the engine is running in voltage... you can put thousands of volts through the human body and not do a thing to it, but stand your hair straight up... but give the body .5amps and you're dead... or at least that's what I was always taught... and I believe that Tesla did a lot of research in the volts vs amps idea...
second, correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason why we don't wire up all the plates is heat reduction... is it not?
so let's say you have a dry 7-cell setup with the standard number of powered and neutrals... and a PWM to give it that extra kick... now times that by 8 with 8 PWM (one on each 7-cell)... you could even sandwich them all together so they have a common flow of pumped electrolyzer... now put the PWMs on an electronic controller (like a megasquirt or similar) that would alternate or switch though the 7-cells (like a distributor/ignition type cycle) so that not too many were on at the same time, but yet increased production overall... maybe even have it so that it monitored the engine to speed up the process as needed by the engine or slow down when it didn't need all that gas... I would think that each 7-cell may even produce a bit of gas after the power was off to that portion from polarization of the plates... you wouldn't want the (8) 7-cells to share a common PWM... if they all had their own, some PWMs could be charging while others were discharging...
but that's just a thought... it would be kinda cool to see... and you would definitely need a second alternator...
anyway... just my .02 there...
just a thought but every thing i have read says it must be square wave pulse not spike or saw tooth.
If that 's true then slowing the rpms down would generate more of a square wave would it not?Just guessing.
Painless
11-03-2008, 08:09 AM
If your setup is using one of the older rotor and brush type ignitions, then making the contacts wider would produce closer to a square wave as opposed to a pulse.
One thing that would probably have to change if going with higher amps rather than volts is using something other than a distributor.I doubt a distributor would hold up against high amperage without melting something.
Anyone have any ideas on what could be used for an alternative means of distribution?
fisher
11-03-2008, 10:42 AM
I have your answer RealTroy, you need a coil.
Here is the principle. A coil with DC voltage connected builds a giant magnetic field around itself (the coil). When the DC is removed, the magnetic field collapses. This collapse causes many magnetic lines of flux to move through the coil, which generates the high voltage that many have mentioned feeling when they grabbed a coil wire.
As a point of further clarification; an AC generator at a power plant - is a coil of wire shoved between two magnets and rotated by a turbine. The coils break across magnetic lines of flux, which generates voltage.
The principle of the old distributor and coil was to put a voltage on the coil (12VDC) and then remove it, creating the magnetic field, then instantly killing it, causing the lines of flux to collapse, and create a resulting voltage spike.
So, you need a coil.
I have your answer RealTroy, you need a coil.
Here is the principle. A coil with DC voltage connected builds a giant magnetic field around itself (the coil). When the DC is removed, the magnetic field collapses. This collapse causes many magnetic lines of flux to move through the coil, which generates the high voltage that many have mentioned feeling when they grabbed a coil wire.
As a point of further clarification; an AC generator at a power plant - is a coil of wire shoved between two magnets and rotated by a turbine. The coils break across magnetic lines of flux, which generates voltage.
The principle of the old distributor and coil was to put a voltage on the coil (12VDC) and then remove it, creating the magnetic field, then instantly killing it, causing the lines of flux to collapse, and create a resulting voltage spike.
So, you need a coil.
In Roys initial post when he stated using 15k(I'm assuming he meant volts)wouldn't that mean having to use a coil for this?
fisher
11-03-2008, 11:36 AM
I don't know. Either he was just assuming that a distributor will give 15KV pulses or he was using a coil, but no coil was mentioned in his discription of his build.
mytoyotasucks
11-03-2008, 11:55 AM
a coil will not put enough amps out!
a coil is for voltage!! :eek:
Id hate to say it but ur going wrong way. :confused:
fisher
11-03-2008, 12:03 PM
A coil is for voltage, but he was seeking a high voltage pulse, which he won't get without a coil.
I fear it won't work without amperage capabilities. And a coil, won't provide much in the way of amperage. But ideas are worth trying. We will find things that do work and that requires trying a lot of things that won't work.
That is the beauty of a forum like this. Different people, trying different things, posting ideas and results which sparks new ideas in the minds of those who read the postings, and with communication and inspiration, we arrive at things that work for us. If we can be positive enough to ignore all the nay-sayers that look for negatives to gig us about in our postings.
Realtyroy
11-03-2008, 12:19 PM
To the question did I have a coil, yes I did. I wired the complete ignition system just like it would be in a car. I was interested to see if the spark generated by the coil would jump the gap through the electrolyte and there for creating the gas.
I believe you are right about not having enough amps. I guess when I was thinking about the kick you can get from grabbing the system running and applying that to the cell it seemed like a fun thing to try.
I had everything laying around and it only took a few minutes to hook it up so what the hell.
This is the old style point setup which is just the switch I was using for the pulse.
Back to the old drawing board.
Roy
mytoyotasucks
11-03-2008, 01:00 PM
but it is always good to think out of the box.
To the question did I have a coil, yes I did. I wired the complete ignition system just like it would be in a car. I was interested to see if the spark generated by the coil would jump the gap through the electrolyte and there for creating the gas.
I believe you are right about not having enough amps. I guess when I was thinking about the kick you can get from grabbing the system running and applying that to the cell it seemed like a fun thing to try.
I had everything laying around and it only took a few minutes to hook it up so what the hell.
This is the old style point setup which is just the switch I was using for the pulse.
Back to the old drawing board.
Roy
Roy you had the right idea but just not the right way to do it.Sure would have been great to come up with a poor mans version of a resonace drive unit without the huge costs and complexity of one.Maybe down the road the old drawing board will sport the one that works.Good luck!!!