TremorFalcons Experiments in HHO

[Tremorfalcon]

I've been playing around with HHO after doing a lot of research on here. I thought I was well prepared but I guess not.

My current setup is 10 plates configured + N N N - - N N N +. The negatives and positives are spaced away from the other plates by nylon washers. The neutrals are spaced by electrical tape around the sides for a close fit.

I hooked it up to my battery charger and put it on the setting of 30 amps at 13.5volts. I got 0.72lpm at 29 amps. Then I put the battery charger on the 200amp @ 7.2volts setting. I got 1.2lpm at 40 amps. Very disappointing numbers and the heat is unmanageable at this point.

My previous set-up I was using was + N - - N N + and on the 30 amps at 13.5 volts setting it put out 0.545lpm at 24 amps. At the 200 amp 7.2volt setting, it put out 0.710lpm at 29 amps.

I am using distilled water and 100% sodium hydroxide. The water is good because when I applied current to just pure water there was no electrolysis and then it started as I added the NaOH. The plates are non-magnetic stainless steel that I got from the local metal scrapyard. I don't know the particular allow number of it. No rust on the plates themselves so far. However, a brown scum keeps coming from somewhere. There is a large build-up on the bottom now. I can't figure out where its coming from? Maybe it's a byproduct of the NaOH when my cell got too hot?

Can someone please help explain why my numbers are so low and what set-up I could use to help improve them? I plan on installing it into a computer-controlled carb 1987 Civic 1500. Using the 0.5lpm per liter of engine size rule, I'd need at leas 0.75lpm, but I'd prefer to get around 3LPM at 30 amps. 2LPM would even make me happy enough. Any suggestions?

Current Set-up:
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n441/tremorfalcon/100_3834.jpg

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n441/tremorfalcon/100_3835.jpg

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n441/tremorfalcon/100_3839.jpg

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n441/tremorfalcon/100_3841.jpg

[Painless]

Firstly, the brown scum is quite likely coming from the adhesive in the electrical tape. I had some scum problems and have come to the conclusion that that is what caused my own issue. It is also possible that the plate grade is inferior too, you really need 302 / 304 / 316 / 316L stainless steel (the list is in order of preference, worst to best).

To increase your MMW (efficiency) at 13.5 volts, you need to get to approx 2.33 volts per cell. A cell is defined as the producing space between two sets of oppositely charged plates. If we divide 13.5 by 2.33 we get 5.8 (rounded), so a 6 cell setup would be your best bet. Try wiring as follows:

+NNNNN- 7 plates, six cells, one positive, one negative and 5 neutrals.

Keep the spacing between your plates consistent, you will find that 1/16" is a good spacing for production. I find that the strap of a cable tie makes a good spacer between plates.

It would also be a help to wrap the plates in a non-conducting material, such as heat shrink wrap or plexiglas, to prevent current leakage around the plates (this will also reduce heat). Remember to leave space for electrolyte to enter the cell and HHO to leave it.

Hope this helps!

[Tremorfalcon]

I should have made it clearer in my first post, but around 90% of that brown scum accumulated before any electrical tape was in the generator. I guess it has to be coming from the plates but it confuses me because the plates are always clean other than the brown scum that sticks to them when I pull them out, but they wipe clean and shiny with a paper towel.

I also tried the 7 plate, 6 cell design when I first put it together but production was relatively low too. May have been possible that there was a short somewhere or spacing was too close so I'll give that a try again and report back when I get results.

[Stevo]

Tremor,

Try building a dry cell using the plates you already have. Get some 1/16" neoprene or other sealing material and make some gaskets. Painless is 100% correct about the approx 2.33 volt/cell. It makes a WORLD of difference in efficiency.

[BoyntonStu]

I should have made it clearer in my first post, but around 90% of that brown scum accumulated before any electrical tape was in the generator. I guess it has to be coming from the plates but it confuses me because the plates are always clean other than the brown scum that sticks to them when I pull them out, but they wipe clean and shiny with a paper towel.

I also tried the 7 plate, 6 cell design when I first put it together but production was relatively low too. May have been possible that there was a short somewhere or spacing was too close so I'll give that a try again and report back when I get results.


Too low?

Betcha you were testing at less than 14.5 Volts.

Try again with 7 plates at 14.5 Volts from your vehicle alternator.

Weaken electrolyte to 20 Amps.

14.5 Volts makes a world of difference.

BoyntonStu

[Tremorfalcon]

Well, right now its running at 13.5 Volts, 6 cells, 2.25 volts per cell.
+ N N N N N - I have around 1tsp of NaOH in about half a gallon of water. Its only drawing around 5 amps. Production is low right now, its not warmed up but I don't expect to see much more of an increase when its warmed up.

I like the suggestion of a dry cell. I could mount it in front of the radiator and get some good cooling for it. I've tried researching them but I cant find any plans describing them good enough for me to understand exactly how they are set up. I know the plates are pressed tightly together and sealed with a rubber gasket around the sides. Where should you drill the holes so that electrolyte flows through it efficiently and how far in should you put the threaded nipples for the hoses? They shouldn't go beyond the first cell right? And what is an effective cell configuration for dry cells? If I can't get this wet cell setup to work right I might just move on to a dry cell so I'd like to learn more about them.

[Painless]

Check out my "Painless Experiment in HHO" thread under General Discussions and my youtube channel "PainlessHHO". I have a video there demonstrating how to build a dry cell from Lowes parts, but naturally the same information can be used for any parts or plates source.

[Tremorfalcon]

Alright, thanks for those links painless should be helpful.

My cell has heated up and its pulling about 8 or 9 amps at 13.5volts. I wrapped the plates in electrical tape to help prevent voltage jumping. From the bubbler, production looks fairly good right now. A few leaks have developed so I'll have to seal those up before I do anything LPM test. But I have a feeling the results will be good. Should increase the LPM farther when it starts running off of the alternator and voltage increases a bit. Now I'll just need more stainless steel plates. If I have three plate configurations all in the same bath (all wrapped of course) it should draw around 28 amps. That may cause heat problems but I'm gonna order a small radiator and 12v water pump as soon as I can.

[scrode]

beware the electrical tape. it wont stay wrapped, as the adhesive will degrade with the electrolyte. I use Rubber Mastic Tape found in the electrical dept of Home Depot. or like others use Innertubes, heat shrinked plastic pop bottles, etc.

good luck