ECU Reporgramming Rather than EFIE?

[SteveO]

I've always wondered, instead of trying to fool the ECU, why not just make it learn by reprogramming it. I can understand you'd rather fool it so you don't VOID your vehicles warranty, but what about the older vehicles that no longer have their factory warranty's? You can get a chipped ECU or have your existing ECU chipped, and get something like Hondata, Neptune, or eCtune so you can change how you want your vehicle to run and let the ECU do the thinking, opposed to messing with knobs. With the knobs on the EFIE/MAP, some set their fuel mixture too lean, and then they don't have power when they need it, or they're just not running efficiently enough.

Anyway....just thought I'd bring this topic up since I haven't seen anyone bring this idea into the mix.

[hg2]

I've always wondered, instead of trying to fool the ECU, why not just make it learn by reprogramming it. I can understand you'd rather fool it so you don't VOID your vehicles warranty, but what about the older vehicles that no longer have their factory warranty's? You can get a chipped ECU or have your existing ECU chipped, and get something like Hondata, Neptune, or eCtune so you can change how you want your vehicle to run and let the ECU do the thinking, opposed to messing with knobs. With the knobs on the EFIE/MAP, some set their fuel mixture too lean, and then they don't have power when they need it, or they're just not running efficiently enough.

Anyway....just thought I'd bring this topic up since I haven't seen anyone bring this idea into the mix.


That was discussed a few days ago on Resagos "Ecu Thread" under engine integration sub forum.

[SteveO]

Ah, ok, Thanks. =)

[Painless]

Surely though, with this level of adjustment available, one could achieve much better MPG results?

I, for one, see a lot of potential for a device that allows ignition timing etc to be adjusted.

[kerry k]

I've always wondered, instead of trying to fool the ECU, why not just make it learn by reprogramming it. I can understand you'd rather fool it so you don't VOID your vehicles warranty, but what about the older vehicles that no longer have their factory warranty's? You can get a chipped ECU or have your existing ECU chipped, and get something like Hondata, Neptune, or eCtune so you can change how you want your vehicle to run and let the ECU do the thinking, opposed to messing with knobs. With the knobs on the EFIE/MAP, some set their fuel mixture too lean, and then they don't have power when they need it, or they're just not running efficiently enough.

Anyway....just thought I'd bring this topic up since I haven't seen anyone bring this idea into the mix.

I totally agree with this. This is my x-mas present to myself
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html :D

[Boltazar]

I'm sure we would like a review by the auto techs here on this product. Based on the web site....................

[Jaxom]

I've seen a lot of hot-rod guys with seriously modified engines use Megasquirt. I've never used it myself so I can't give reviews on it, but from what I hear it's good stuff. Keep in mind most of these guys' engines have aftermarket cams, upgraded intakes and possibly heads, most of the emissions hardware gone, oversized injectors, and who knows what else. Some even run forced induction or nitrous oxide. Go to the message board at www.thirdgen.org and check out the subforum "DFI and ECM." (http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/dfi-ecm/) It's a Camaro-specific site but there's a lot of good info there on EFI tuning in general, and a bunch of guys using Megasquirt that can help you if you run into problems. That site gets a lot of traffic so use the search button to find what you need. They don't like it when people ask questions that have already been answered a dozen times.

[kerry k]

To be totally honest one of the main reasons I am going Megasquirt is to run E-85. My car (86 Merkur xr4ti) With its 22+ year old electronics is just not adaptable enough to fully take advantage of HHO and its benifits. Being a turbo charged car any lean condition is bad. On my car tricking the sensors just moves the problem somewhere else. I tried fooling my O2 sensor then the timing was off. The oxygenated garbage the smog nazis try and pass off as gasoline in my area only makes things a lot worse.

I personaly know of 6 people running megasquirt. They all love it. It's laptap programable, lets you program all the varibles into your fuel map. I plan on making 3 different programs 1 for e/85 hho, 1 for pump gas hho and 1 for race gas only:)

[HiTechRedNeck73]

the biggest downfall to megasquirt is that it's not emissions legal... you are essentially modifying emissions equipment and forcing it to do what you want... I don't know what state you're in, but around here it would be impossible to do... smog stations in CA plug into the OBD port for testing, so anything out of the ordinary is failed...

I even doubt an EFIE would be allowed in this state... if the smog machine knows the difference, then that is not an option for me... that is why I've been very interested in anyone with OBD data while running hho...

there is a process to get an exemption for smog testing, but it requires getting a prototype permit and certification as if you were going to produce the product as a business... it get's very costly...

if your state isn't that bad yet... great, it may work for you...

[resago]

Alabama doesn't even have vehicle inspection, let alone emissions. :)
If it has 4 wheels and a tag, you can drive it:D

[Jaxom]

Alabama doesn't even have vehicle inspection, let alone emissions. :)
If it has 4 wheels and a tag, you can drive it:D

When did they institute the "4-wheels" law? ;)

Seriously though, you'd be amazed at some of the JUNK that's street-legal in this state. People driving around with no hood, no muffler, and the engine smoking like a freight train are not an uncommon sight.

[bigapple]

Even easier than microsquirt or megasquirt, if you were to purchase a programmer for your car, it would cost less and you wouldn't have to wire anything, although if your car does not have an OBD II jack plug, it wouldn't work. You would have to readjust your distributor manually with a timing light.

For example, the best tuner for my explorer is the SCT Xcal tuner that works for most ford fuel injected engines. It allows you to adjust the mixture, adjust ignition timing, and other small increments. It also has preset programs for mpg, hp, torque, etc.

http://www.steeda.com/images/sct_xcalibrator_3_175.jpg

[hydrotinkerer]

Even easier than microsquirt or megasquirt, if you were to purchase a programmer for your car, it would cost less and you wouldn't have to wire anything, although if your car does not have an OBD II jack plug, it wouldn't work. You would have to readjust your distributor manually with a timing light.

For example, the best tuner for my explorer is the SCT Xcal tuner that works for most ford fuel injected engines. It allows you to adjust the mixture, adjust ignition timing, and other small increments. It also has preset programs for mpg, hp, torque, etc.

http://www.steeda.com/images/sct_xcalibrator_3_175.jpg


Does that type of tuner for your Ford have to stay hooked up inorder for your changes to stay active? Can it be set and then taken off?

[kerry k]

We used to have emissions testing in the Louisville, Ky. area but they did away with it a few years ago. The local govt. finally realized the smog testing did almost nothing for air quality since 96+% of the cars tested passed anyway. The only people that where benefiting from the testing were the contractors running the testing stations and the small amount of tax revenue it generated.

Smog testing was a good idea 20 something years ago when most cars had big carburated v8s but todays cars do not need it.

[HiTechRedNeck73]

We used to have emissions testing in the Louisville, Ky. area but they did away with it a few years ago. The local govt. finally realized the smog testing did almost nothing for air quality since 96+% of the cars tested passed anyway. The only people that where benefiting from the testing were the contractors running the testing stations and the small amount of tax revenue it generated.

Smog testing was a good idea 20 something years ago when most cars had big carburated v8s but todays cars do not need it.

well, then count yourself lucky... here in CA the smog testing is so strick that they had to exempt new vehicles for the first 6 model years off the lot because too many of them were failing on their first test at the 2nd year... now they have to test coming off the lot (before, they weren't tested off the lot) and then exempt for 6 model years with the original owner... otherwise its every 2yrs for any vehicle made after 1976... pre-1976 is exempt...

also, a number of years ago, we changed our smog testing to dyno based... smog is tested at idle, 25mph, and 45mph on a rolling dyno... as well as the smog machine being connected to the OBD port (can't have any stored codes in memory) and the sniffer up the tailpipe... that also includes a visual inspection (under hood and under car), vacuum test the gas cap, and verifying aftermarket components with CARB (CA Air Resource Board)... if a K&N air filter doesn't have a CARB number, you can't use it (just an example, K&N pays to have their stuff tested and certified by CARB)...

now if you fail any one of these tests, you can get your tags renewed on your car... you can get to a referee and get classified as a "gross poluter" but then you have to get tested every year and after 2yrs of that status, you either sell your car to the state for $1000 or you fix it or junk it...

it's not a perfect system... for the honest, all it does is give us a headache to deal with... for the dishonest, well, there are a couple of ways to get around it for a while... but usually within a year or two you get caught...

[bigapple]

Does that type of tuner for your Ford have to stay hooked up inorder for your changes to stay active? Can it be set and then taken off?

Yeah. The programmer is hooked into the OBD II port and the program is set with the instructions that come with it, and you can pretty much adjust anything.

[HALS-GUNSMITHING]

Even easier than microsquirt or megasquirt, if you were to purchase a programmer for your car, it would cost less and you wouldn't have to wire anything, although if your car does not have an OBD II jack plug, it wouldn't work. You would have to readjust your distributor manually with a timing light.

For example, the best tuner for my explorer is the SCT Xcal tuner that works for most ford fuel injected engines. It allows you to adjust the mixture, adjust ignition timing, and other small increments. It also has preset programs for mpg, hp, torque, etc.

http://www.steeda.com/images/sct_xcalibrator_3_175.jpg

Ball park, how much do thease go for?

[HiTechRedNeck73]

Ball park, how much do thease go for?

about $600

[Stevo]

I've seen a lot of hot-rod guys with seriously modified engines use Megasquirt. I've never used it myself so I can't give reviews on it, but from what I hear it's good stuff. Keep in mind most of these guys' engines have aftermarket cams, upgraded intakes and possibly heads, most of the emissions hardware gone, oversized injectors, and who knows what else. Some even run forced induction or nitrous oxide. Go to the message board at www.thirdgen.org and check out the subforum "DFI and ECM." (http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/dfi-ecm/) It's a Camaro-specific site but there's a lot of good info there on EFI tuning in general, and a bunch of guys using Megasquirt that can help you if you run into problems. That site gets a lot of traffic so use the search button to find what you need. They don't like it when people ask questions that have already been answered a dozen times.

Megasquirt is the talk among many a Toyota Supra owners. :)