More voltage equals more production!

[fisher]

I am in electronics and thus have access to variable power supplies, etc for testing my homemade generators. I wanted to debunk a myth (or two) that seems prevalant with HHO junkies.

I used plastic bolts, washers and nuts to bolt two strips of SS together with 1/8th inch spacing between the two. I stuck theses two strips into a glass containing a KOH / water solution and connected a variable DC power supply to the strips.

With about one half of one volt applied, I could see bubbles of HHO being generated. Not many, but there was HHO being produced.
MYTH - It takes over 1.24 or 1.39 or ?.?? volts to produce HHO - BUSTED.

I began increasing the voltage. As I did, production increased. I did not measure production, I just watched through the glass that contained my test generator. With one volt applied, I had some production. With two volts, more production. With 4 volts, even more. With 6 volts, even more. With 12 volts, much more.
MYTH - After 1.29 volts or 2 volts or 2.5 volts or ?.?? volts, production does not increase - BUSTED.

Now, there is a magic point of tradeoff somewhere. 12 volts connected to only 2 plates wired +- generated a LOT of bubbles. No doubt why so many post on this forum wanting to figure out a way to do a cell that is wired +-+-+- without heat problems. It simply creates a lot more bubbles, than using neutral plates. But adding neutral plates decreases production. I will say it again. ADDING NEUTRAL PLATES DECREASES PRODUCTION. Please, lay down your ax and finish reading my post before you chop my head off for that statement.

The magic point of tradeoff is that you must use some neutral plates. 12 volts applied in a +- manner on two plates generates lots of bubbles of HHO, but it also generates way too much heat. The neutral plates reduce the output of the cell, but also reduce the heat generated in the cell. That is why they are added.

I feel that the number of neutral plates you need is contingent upon your particular cell design, it's location in your car, it's container... If it is in front of the radiator, where cool air can get to it, you may get by with less neutral plates because your cell can lose heat to the ambient air. If it is between your exhaust pipes, with no cool air around, you are going to have more heat problems. So how many neutral plates? Why do some recommend 4, some 5, some 6... some 100? Because it depends on a lot of factors. But realize this, less plates will generate more gas (and more heat.)

Opposites attract. Electrons have a negative charge. If you have a 12 volt battery, with two plates and a molecule of water between those plates, the negatively charged electrons will be attracted toward the positive plate. But the positively charged protons in the atoms of H and O will be attracted toward the negative plate. This causes them to split. and you just generated HHO. Because you split the molecule. Doesn't it make sense that 12 volts will apply more force to split the molecules than 2 volts would, therefore 12 volts will be more effective?

I don't know where these magic numbers of 1.24 volts, 2 volts... came from. I have read many places that after that certain voltage, production does not increase. If I had a video camera, I would post a video to disprove this myth. If you don't believe it, try it yourself. If you do not have a variable power supply, connect 12 volts to 2 plates, as I did and view the production, then add another two plates into another glass sitting separate from your first test generator, and wire the two in series so that each gets approximately 6 volts. Then view the production of your cell and contrast the amount of bubbles generated at 12 volts to the amount generated at 6 volts. 12 does more, way more. But generates too much heat. That is why we add neutral plates. They reduce the voltage between plates, thus reducing heat but also reducing output.

Now, I stuck my neck out, go for my head.

[BoyntonStu]

I am in electronics and thus have access to variable power supplies, etc for testing my homemade generators. I wanted to debunk a myth (or two) that seems prevalant with HHO junkies.

I used plastic bolts, washers and nuts to bolt two strips of SS together with 1/8th inch spacing between the two. I stuck theses two strips into a glass containing a KOH / water solution and connected a variable DC power supply to the strips.

With about one half of one volt applied, I could see bubbles of HHO being generated. Not many, but there was HHO being produced.
MYTH - It takes over 1.24 or 1.39 or ?.?? volts to produce HHO - BUSTED.

I began increasing the voltage. As I did, production increased. I did not measure production, I just watched through the glass that contained my test generator. With one volt applied, I had some production. With two volts, more production. With 4 volts, even more. With 6 volts, even more. With 12 volts, much more.
MYTH - After 1.29 volts or 2 volts or 2.5 volts or ?.?? volts, production does not increase - BUSTED.

Now, there is a magic point of tradeoff somewhere. 12 volts connected to only 2 plates wired +- generated a LOT of bubbles. No doubt why so many post on this forum wanting to figure out a way to do a cell that is wired +-+-+- without heat problems. It simply creates a lot more bubbles, than using neutral plates. But adding neutral plates decreases production. I will say it again. ADDING NEUTRAL PLATES DECREASES PRODUCTION. Please, lay down your ax and finish reading my post before you chop my head off for that statement.

The magic point of tradeoff is that you must use some neutral plates. 12 volts applied in a +- manner on two plates generates lots of bubbles of HHO, but it also generates way too much heat. The neutral plates reduce the output of the cell, but also reduce the heat generated in the cell. That is why they are added.

I feel that the number of neutral plates you need is contingent upon your particular cell design, it's location in your car, it's container... If it is in front of the radiator, where cool air can get to it, you may get by with less neutral plates because your cell can lose heat to the ambient air. If it is between your exhaust pipes, with no cool air around, you are going to have more heat problems. So how many neutral plates? Why do some recommend 4, some 5, some 6... some 100? Because it depends on a lot of factors. But realize this, less plates will generate more gas (and more heat.)

Opposites attract. Electrons have a negative charge. If you have a 12 volt battery, with two plates and a molecule of water between those plates, the negatively charged electrons will be attracted toward the positive plate. But the positively charged protons in the atoms of H and O will be attracted toward the negative plate. This causes them to split. and you just generated HHO. Because you split the molecule. Doesn't it make sense that 12 volts will apply more force to split the molecules than 2 volts would, therefore 12 volts will be more effective?

I don't know where these magic numbers of 1.24 volts, 2 volts... came from. I have read many places that after that certain voltage, production does not increase. If I had a video camera, I would post a video to disprove this myth. If you don't believe it, try it yourself. If you do not have a variable power supply, connect 12 volts to 2 plates, as I did and view the production, then add another two plates into another glass sitting separate from your first test generator, and wire the two in series so that each gets approximately 6 volts. Then view the production of your cell and contrast the amount of bubbles generated at 12 volts to the amount generated at 6 volts. 12 does more, way more. But generates too much heat. That is why we add neutral plates. They reduce the voltage between plates, thus reducing heat but also reducing output.

Now, I stuck my neck out, go for my head.

Thermodynamics of the process (Wikipedia - Water electrolysis)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_electrolysis

Decomposition of pure water into hydrogen and oxygen at standard temperature and pressure is not favorable in thermodynamical terms. This is because, E(cell)=E(Oxidation) + E(Reduction). If E(cell) < 0, reaction is not favorable.


Thus, the standard potential of the water electrolysis cell is 1.23 V at 25 °C.

The positive voltage indicates the Gibbs Free Energy for electrolysis of water is greater than zero for these reactions. This can be found using the Nernst Equation at equilibrium. The reaction cannot occur without adding necessary energy, usually supplied by an external electrical power source but also possible with thermal energy.

IOW 1.23 V @ 25* C must be supplied to water for electrolysis to begin.

If the electrolyte low in resistance, as it would be with 27% KOH by weight, and if the plates are close together, the I^2R heating losses will be at the minimum.

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

Don't worry about stucking your neck out here, I'm going to do it with you based on what I've seen that clarifies things a bit more:

Production of some sort does occur at voltages lower than 1. Its just barely there. My first HHO setup was 16 plates at 12v, it sucked big time but DID produce some HHO.

I once took a set of plates wired +NNNN- and accidentally shorted out the whole set by touching a bolt along the side of the series set (it spot welded to it!). Production was so nuts I could hear it fizzling. I turned it off after about 30 seconds and pulled the plates out of the bath, they were hot!

I too believe production occurs at all voltages, its just that there is a point where production isn't enough and another where heat is an issue (as you stated).

I've said before that I believe production is a factor of voltage, resistance and area of plates, resistance of the electrolyte, efficiency of the setup as concerns current leakage / loss and plate gap.

[Boltazar]

Using graphite as the anode will reduce heat, but It also carries some other requirements as, type of electrolyte, effective way of attaching wires to it.

I realise this may not be the time or place to bring up graphite but, aw, what the heck I'll stick my head out too

[fisher]

BoyntonStu, I done went and dove off in waters too deep for me, a fact you quickly revealed to me. To most of your post, I reply with an emphatic "DUH, WHAT?". My first simple thought is the @25 degrees C. That ain't happenin under my hood.

Second thought, are you saying that the I^2R losses would be a minimum at any voltage? If so, I disagree. The magic right amount of voltage would give the maximum output without exceeding maximum acceptable heating rates. But increasing voltage would take you away from that point. Also, as heat increases, I increases (current is I for those who don't know) and R (resistance) decreases. However since we are squaring I, the decrease in R still changes the power since it increases I.

So I don't know what I just said, but in short; the results change with changes of temperature, and voltage.

Painless, thanks for the backup.

[fisher]

Using graphite as the anode will reduce heat, but It also carries some other requirements as, type of electrolyte, effective way of attaching wires to it.

I realise this may not be the time or place to bring up graphite but, aw, what the heck I'll stick my head out too

Thanks for joining me on the ole chopping block here. Now I don't feel so alone.

[Static HHO]

Thanks for joining me on the ole chopping block here. Now I don't feel so alone.

I'll join you there. Some of the best, in this business, alway warn against over-driving a cell. Paraphrasing here: any voltage over 2.4 volts, measured at any air gap, or two adjoining cell plates, tend to drive the ferrous (iron) oxides out of the metal. While 316 L Stainless is one of the best choices for electrode plates, oxides will still be driven from this alloy if the voltage runs higher, over an extended period of time, that the 2.4 volts. If you're looking for higher production, increase the square inches in contact with your electrolyte solution. 'necks out, take a swing.

[fisher]

any voltage over 2.4 volts, measured at any air gap, or two adjoining cell plates, tend to drive the ferrous (iron) oxides out of the metal. While 316 L Stainless is one of the best choices for electrode plates, oxides will still be driven from this alloy if the voltage runs higher, over an extended period of time, that the 2.4 volts. If you're looking for higher production, increase the square inches in contact with your electrolyte solution.

So lets see, assuming a maximum voltage of 14 volts,

14 / 2.4 = 5.83, I need at least 6 cells, or a + plate, a - plate and 5 neutrals. And that would prevent damage to my plates.

Now, let say that I do that, using electrical switch plates, and get 0.25 LPM of hydroxy for 6 months.

Or, I use only 5 plates, making 4 cells (a +, a -, 3 neutrals) and get .40 LPM of hydroxy for 6 months, and then have to spend 1.96 each for 5 more plates, and rebuild my cell.

But with .25 LPM my car gets 35 MPG, with .40 LPM, it gets 40 MPG. And I drive 8000 miles in 6 months.

8000 / 35 = 228 gallons @ 3.50 per = $800 worth of gas.
8000 / 40 = 200 gallons @ 3.50 per = $700 worth of gas.

So for sacrificing $10 worth of plates, I save $100 worth of gas. I will sacrifice the plates.

NOTE: The numbers used above were just pulled from thin air in order to obtain an example. Just to show that sacrificing plates may be acceptable if the cost/benefit ratio justifies it.

thoughts?

[redneckgearhead34]

So lets see, assuming a maximum voltage of 14 volts,

14 / 2.4 = 5.83, I need at least 6 cells, or a + plate, a - plate and 5 neutrals. And that would prevent damage to my plates.

Now, let say that I do that, using electrical switch plates, and get 0.25 LPM of hydroxy for 6 months.

Or, I use only 5 plates, making 4 cells (a +, a -, 3 neutrals) and get .40 LPM of hydroxy for 6 months, and then have to spend 1.96 each for 5 more plates, and rebuild my cell.

But with .25 LPM my car gets 35 MPG, with .40 LPM, it gets 40 MPG. And I drive 8000 miles in 6 months.

8000 / 35 = 228 gallons @ 3.50 per = $800 worth of gas.
8000 / 40 = 200 gallons @ 3.50 per = $700 worth of gas.

So for sacrificing $10 worth of plates, I save $100 worth of gas. I will sacrifice the plates.

NOTE: The numbers used above were just pulled from thin air in order to obtain an example. Just to show that sacrificing plates may be acceptable if the cost/benefit ratio justifies it.

thoughts?

I know this is kind of out there but, once you get enough plates you can take them to a metal recycling place and they will pay you to recycle the plates. They pay by the pound.

I stripped down an old a/c unit once and got like $300 for the copper out of it.

[overtaker]

NOT SO BUSTED! I would say it is the extra current from the higher voltage that is producing the increase in production. Do the same experiment only check the amps. at each step. Then try to produce the same amps. with only 2v. It will have the same production only with much less heat. Of course I could be wrong. :D

[fisher]

OK, overtaker, If I had X amount of production at 12 volts, and it was pulling 15 amps; you are saying reduce the voltage to 2 volts, super dope my electrolyte till I am pulling 15 amps, and I can generate just as much HHO with less heat. I fear not. I don't know but Im afraid that 15 amps going through the electrolyte will create a certain amount of heat no matter what voltage is driving it.

The principle (I think) is that voltage is just a force. 12 volts applies more force to a circuit than 2 volts does. But either 12 volts, or 2 volts, can create just as much current, as each other. Current depends on resistance also, (in addition to voltage.)

Current is the measure of how many electrons are flowing through a circuit in one second. So, I fear that it doesn't matter how much force is causing the current, it is the current that creates the heat. According to a conversation I was having on another thread on this board (called something to the effect of "new cell design - maybe") heat generated can be calculated as I^2 X R X T (current squared times resistance times time). Notice that voltage is nowhere in that formula.

Never-the-less, you raise an interesting point. I think I will super dope a cell and apply only 2 volts and look at output and heat rates.

[Riddler250]

Where are you going to get 2v from? If you are taking it from a veh, and plan on dropping it from 14 or 12, you have 10v or 12v wasted, if you are going to use resistors you will still have that heat, just in a different spot. Does that sound right fisher?

[fisher]

Yes, it does sound right. I can get 2 volts for testing purposes with a variable DC power supply that I have. In order to get 2 volts in a car, either use resistors or build some type of circuit. Or, series connect 6 or 7 cells so that each gets about 1/6th or 1/7th of the full voltage.

[JojoJaro]

I am in electronics and thus have access to variable power supplies, etc for testing my homemade generators. I wanted to debunk a myth (or two) that seems prevalant with HHO junkies.

I used plastic bolts, washers and nuts to bolt two strips of SS together with 1/8th inch spacing between the two. I stuck theses two strips into a glass containing a KOH / water solution and connected a variable DC power supply to the strips.

With about one half of one volt applied, I could see bubbles of HHO being generated. Not many, but there was HHO being produced.
MYTH - It takes over 1.24 or 1.39 or ?.?? volts to produce HHO - BUSTED.

I began increasing the voltage. As I did, production increased. I did not measure production, I just watched through the glass that contained my test generator. With one volt applied, I had some production. With two volts, more production. With 4 volts, even more. With 6 volts, even more. With 12 volts, much more.
MYTH - After 1.29 volts or 2 volts or 2.5 volts or ?.?? volts, production does not increase - BUSTED.

Now, there is a magic point of tradeoff somewhere. 12 volts connected to only 2 plates wired +- generated a LOT of bubbles. No doubt why so many post on this forum wanting to figure out a way to do a cell that is wired +-+-+- without heat problems. It simply creates a lot more bubbles, than using neutral plates. But adding neutral plates decreases production. I will say it again. ADDING NEUTRAL PLATES DECREASES PRODUCTION. Please, lay down your ax and finish reading my post before you chop my head off for that statement.

The magic point of tradeoff is that you must use some neutral plates. 12 volts applied in a +- manner on two plates generates lots of bubbles of HHO, but it also generates way too much heat. The neutral plates reduce the output of the cell, but also reduce the heat generated in the cell. That is why they are added.

I feel that the number of neutral plates you need is contingent upon your particular cell design, it's location in your car, it's container... If it is in front of the radiator, where cool air can get to it, you may get by with less neutral plates because your cell can lose heat to the ambient air. If it is between your exhaust pipes, with no cool air around, you are going to have more heat problems. So how many neutral plates? Why do some recommend 4, some 5, some 6... some 100? Because it depends on a lot of factors. But realize this, less plates will generate more gas (and more heat.)

Opposites attract. Electrons have a negative charge. If you have a 12 volt battery, with two plates and a molecule of water between those plates, the negatively charged electrons will be attracted toward the positive plate. But the positively charged protons in the atoms of H and O will be attracted toward the negative plate. This causes them to split. and you just generated HHO. Because you split the molecule. Doesn't it make sense that 12 volts will apply more force to split the molecules than 2 volts would, therefore 12 volts will be more effective?

I don't know where these magic numbers of 1.24 volts, 2 volts... came from. I have read many places that after that certain voltage, production does not increase. If I had a video camera, I would post a video to disprove this myth. If you don't believe it, try it yourself. If you do not have a variable power supply, connect 12 volts to 2 plates, as I did and view the production, then add another two plates into another glass sitting separate from your first test generator, and wire the two in series so that each gets approximately 6 volts. Then view the production of your cell and contrast the amount of bubbles generated at 12 volts to the amount generated at 6 volts. 12 does more, way more. But generates too much heat. That is why we add neutral plates. They reduce the voltage between plates, thus reducing heat but also reducing output.

Now, I stuck my neck out, go for my head.

Fisher, While the data you gathered may seem to be correct, the conclusions you drew from it, I believe is faulty. I can think of 4 arguments against your conclusions.

1. When you are wiring +- plates at 12 volts, you are increasing your heat so much that it would be unavoidable to produce steam. Are you sure the bubbles you are seeing is HHO? I would venture to say at that level of heat, most of those bubbles are probably steam. Absent chemical analysis of your output, there is no way to tell.

2. When you are increasing the voltage, you are not taking into consideration the amps increase. Increasing the voltage increases your amps. And amps is where the HHO production comes from. A better experiment would have been to measure both voltage and amps to calculate the mmw output.

3. When you measured output of +- arrangement, you should have compared it with the output of +nnnnn-. You are assuming the adding N plates will not increase production. But infact, the N plates themselves produce HHO without any increase in current. A better experiment would have been to compare the output of the 2 configuration. I would venture to say that your +nnnnn- production would be higher than your +- production. You mmw efficiency would also be higher. (Use 13.8 volts instead of 12 voltst since 13.8V is the voltage you will see in a car.)

4. You did not measure your output. So, at this point, your data is NOT DATA. Subjective observation is fraught with errors and illusions.

So, while I applaud your meticulous data gathering and experimental efforts, I believe you are fundamentally misunderstanding the electrolysis process. Read the Hydrogen PDF (link somewhere in this forum.) to get a better fundamental understanding of electrolysis. BoyntonStu is correct. There is a voltage point, above which, you are simply wasting energy as heat.

[fisher]

Fisher, While the data you gathered may seem to be correct, the conclusions you drew from it, I believe is faulty. I can think of 4 arguments against your conclusions.

1. When you are wiring +- plates at 12 volts, you are increasing your heat so much that it would be unavoidable to produce steam. Are you sure the bubbles you are seeing is HHO? I would venture to say at that level of heat, most of those bubbles are probably steam. Absent chemical analysis of your output, there is no way to tell.

2. When you are increasing the voltage, you are not taking into consideration the amps increase. Increasing the voltage increases your amps. And amps is where the HHO production comes from. A better experiment would have been to measure both voltage and amps to calculate the mmw output.

3. When you measured output of +- arrangement, you should have compared it with the output of +nnnnn-. You are assuming the adding N plates will not increase production. But infact, the N plates themselves produce HHO without any increase in current. A better experiment would have been to compare the output of the 2 configuration. I would venture to say that your +nnnnn- production would be higher than your +- production. You mmw efficiency would also be higher. (Use 13.8 volts instead of 12 voltst since 13.8V is the voltage you will see in a car.)

4. You did not measure your output. So, at this point, your data is NOT DATA. Subjective observation is fraught with errors and illusions.

So, while I applaud your meticulous data gathering and experimental efforts, I believe you are fundamentally misunderstanding the electrolysis process. Read the Hydrogen PDF (link somewhere in this forum.) to get a better fundamental understanding of electrolysis. BoyntonStu is correct. There is a voltage point, above which, you are simply wasting energy as heat.

Thank you for putting the numbers so that I can disagree point by point.

1. I had my little 2 plate system in a large fishbowl of water. Enough water that during the process of the experiment, it did not get hot. Had I prolonged the experiment long enough, I could have generated steam, but no longer than it took to carry out the experiment, not much heat was generated. Certainly not enough to manufacture steam. (also, I raised the voltage and watched output increase, then reduced it and watched output decrease, so the water did not get hot and then cool down)

Also, I was looking at the amount of bubbles being generated more than the amount of steam rising up around the poor goldfish.
(Just kidding, there were no goldfish harmed in the process.)

2. Increasing the voltage does increase the amps, and my power supply shows me a digital readout of both, constantly. So as I was increasing the volts, I was also increasing the amps. The only way to increase volts without increasing amps would be to monitor amps and dilute the electrolyte each time voltage was increased to the point that amps returned back to the original value. Something that I feel would create no change in output. Because I do feel that more amps creates more output, and more heat. But the easiest way to get more amps, on my test bench, is to apply more voltage.

3. It was out of the original scope of this post, but I do have a generator built consisting of 8 plates -nn++nn-. Using the handy fishbowl, I can turn this generator on and visually see which plates are generating the most output. Without fail, generation is greater on the - plates, slightly less on the + plates, and even less on the n plates.

So I tried that too, but my original post here was to point out the fact that with all the options a gen with no neutrals would generate more bubbles, and more heat, and that as voltage was increased, (which increases current) output of bubbles would also increase.

I have tried with no neutrals, one neutral, two, three, four, all the way to 8. No neutrals produces more. Way more. But you can't run with no neutrals, unless you add a good cooler.

4. I did not measure my output any way but visually, and I can tell visually when a lot of bubbles and being generated and when only a few are being generated.

Finally, I totally agree with BoytonStu, and thought that I made that plain, that there is a magic point (I called it) of neutrals that you should add to your generator. The fewer, the more production. The more, the less heat. So find the best balance.

[fisher]

I just re-read my above post and want to make one thing plain. The reason that I said more voltage equals more production is that when you add neutrals, you are reducing cell voltage.

If you have a 2 plate +-, you have one 12 volts cell.
If you have a 3 plate +n-, you have two 6 volt cells.
If you have a 4 plate +nn-, you have three 4 volt cells, don't believe it, just use a meter to read the voltage on two adjacent plates while the thing is running.

So more voltage ON A CELL gives more output.

Now, does one cell, consisting of 2 plates wired +-
give more output than
two cells, consisting of 3 plates, wired +n-
It did for me.

That is why I say more voltage gives more production. Yes, more current does too.

Take my 2 plate cell, and add more KOH to the water and current will rise, so will more bubbles, so will heat.

Take the 3 plate cell, add more KOH, all rise. Because current increases.

But adding neutral plates does not increase production, unless you increase KOH levels to counteract the reduced voltage (and current). But then when you get more bubbles, you get more current and more heat.

I would venture to say, and I think I will test this theory; that if you take a 2 plate cell and add enough KOH to get 12 amps at 12 volts, you will get X amount of output.

And the if you take a 3 plate cell and add enough KOH to get 12 amps, a 12 volts, but for this system 6 volts per cell, you will get the exact same amount of output.

At least I believe you would. I gotta work tomorrow, but tests will be performed. Results will be posted.

Thanks for the replies and interest. I am learning and having fun doing it. Somebody said, building HHO generators makes you look at everything as a potential generator. I am shopping the kitchen hardware isle at Wal-Mart every time I go in. I personally think that SS cheese grater might be just the thing. ;-)

[JojoJaro]

Thank you for putting the numbers so that I can disagree point by point.

1. I had my little 2 plate system in a large fishbowl of water. Enough water that during the process of the experiment, it did not get hot. Had I prolonged the experiment long enough, I could have generated steam, but no longer than it took to carry out the experiment, not much heat was generated. Certainly not enough to manufacture steam. (also, I raised the voltage and watched output increase, then reduced it and watched output decrease, so the water did not get hot and then cool down)



Just because the water did not get warm for the entire 'large' fishbowl, does not mean that temps in between the plates are not hot enough for steam generation. It is likely that the temps in between the plates got hot enough to produce localized steam. You are simply not seeing the temps of the fishbowl go up that significantly because your fishbowl has a lot of water relative to the amount of water in-between the plates.



2. Increasing the voltage does increase the amps, and my power supply shows me a digital readout of both, constantly. So as I was increasing the volts, I was also increasing the amps. The only way to increase volts without increasing amps would be to monitor amps and dilute the electrolyte each time voltage was increased to the point that amps returned back to the original value. Something that I feel would create no change in output. Because I do feel that more amps creates more output, and more heat. But the easiest way to get more amps, on my test bench, is to apply more voltage.

There you have it. Amps is the factor that produces more, not volts. If you can increase amps with stronger electrolyte, you can lower your voltage and still have the same production.


Next time, better to quote mmw instead of simply 'production'. Also, better to do actual measurements. While you believe your visual observation is conclusive, it is better to have actual measurements to convince skeptics like me.

Also, experiment with +nnnnn- configuration. Your production will be better with less heat.

[H2OPWR]

If you want to prove your point please measure the production and quit using voltage. Start using wattage. We produce and measure electricity by the watt. You may be correct but you are making your point with volts and not watts.