plate configuration testing

[hmfdesigns]

i wanted to test some different plate configurations today. wanted to test some things that were slightly different than the norm. we are still testing but i thought id post the test results so you guys will know what NOT to do
all tests were done in same container same concentration of electrolyte 2 teaspoons of KOH with 104 ounces of distilled water, water was refrigerated between tests to bring down to 100 degrees each time


Test 1
2 2.5 x 6 plates 1/16” thick gap powered by car
10 mins very good output
temp rise rate too high to be useful

Test 2
2 2.5 x 6 plates 1/8” thick gap powered by car
no noticeable difference in production
temp rise rate too high to be useful

Test 3
2 2.5 x 6 plates 3/16” nylon washer thick gap powered by car
slightly less production than test 2
temp rise rate too high to be useful

Test 4
2 2.5 x 6 plates ¼” thick gap powered by car
slightly less production than 3
temp rise rate too high to high to be useful

Test 5
2 2.5 x 6 plates ½” thick gap powered by car
slightly less than test 4
temp rise rate too high to high to be useful

Test 6
2 2.5 x 6 plates 11/16” thick gap powered by car
start at 100 degrees
12 mins 120 degrees rise rate too high to be useful
tested output 200 ml/min

Test 7
4 2.5 x 6 plates 9/32” thick gap +nn- powered by car
start at 100 degrees
10 mins no temp change
tested output 200 ml/min

Test 8
4 2.5 x 6 plates 9/32” thick gap +-+- powered by car
start at 110 degrees
3 mins 124 degrees temp rise rate too high to be useful
temp rise rate too high to test output

Test 9
3 2.5 x6 plates ¾” thick gap +-+
start at 105 degrees
4 mins 120 degrees temp rise rate too high to be useful
tested output 300 ml/min

[hmfdesigns]

update same conditions exactly

Test 10
8 2.5 x 6 plates 1/16” gap wired in series powered by car
start temp 120 degrees
5 mins 128 degrees
10 mins 131 degrees temp rise rate too high powered by car
tested output 375 ml/min

Test 11
11 2.5 x 6 plates 1/16” gap –nnnn+nnnn- powered by car
start temp 110 degrees
18 mins 128 degrees
tested output 425 ml/min

on an added note none of these configurations are what i use in the kits we sell my kit has fairly low output in comparison to most advertised units but mine will put it out consistently. im doing this testing to improve upon design. but from what i have seen my configuration and volume of water without any cooling is peaked out at 500 ml/min but 4 of my cells is comparable with the gorilla cells that cost 2grand + so i guess thats not too bad

[hmfdesigns]

update

Test 12
16 2.5 x 6 plates 1/16" gap +nnnn-nnnn+nnnn- run parallel powered by car
start temp 100 degree
10 mins 120 degrees
15 mins 130 degrees temp rise rate too high to be useful
output was incredibly good did not test due to high temp

Test 13
16 2.5 x 6 plates 1/16" gap +nnnn-nnnn+nnnn- run series powered by car
start temp 100 degree
no change in temp
output terrible

well no miraculous new discoveries tonight on how to get alot of hho out of 100 ozs of water without overheating. but now at least you guys now what configurations to not try all of the above are a complete waste of time even if you adjust the electrolyte they all still overheat eventually

[liberybell]

Any luck with some other configuration?
I am planning to test the following configurations using 304L ss 31/2"x8" plates 16G:

1)
8 plates 1/16 gap -nnnnnn+

2)
9 plates 1/16 gap -nnn+nnn-

3)
17 plates inner 9 plates at 1/16gap outer plates at 1/8 gap
- n n n+nnn-nnn+ n n n -

I will try my configurations in series first, then I will do some testing on parallel.

I will post my result on this thread or new thread as I do the test.

[hmfdesigns]

no new testing i ran the cell that i actually sell and ran it for about 6 hours yesterday and it got up to 130 finally. but so far i have not discovered anything new and better

[liberybell]

Let's talk about wires and connectors.
wires:12G, 10g.
connectors: ss, copper?
What are you using?

[mneste8718]

To not overheat, you should be using upwards of 7 plates with 5 neutrals. The goal is to get the voltage down to 1.24 volts on each plate. This can be accomplished with a 14 volt system (like in a car) by having 10 or 11 plates

+nnnnnnnn-

yielding less than 1.4 volts per plate. This way most of the current supplied to the plates will be used in HHO production. Also keep in mind that you need to have very good connections between wires and plates because loose connections build up heat fast. You need to use thick steel or just large surface area if you are trying to run a lot of amps through it.

Lastly, I hope you are using something like KOH or NaOH as your electrolyte because that yields best and most stable results.

[hmfdesigns]

i use 8 gauge wire on everything with gold plated terminals and all bolts and nuts that are inside the cell are stainless there is nothing inside the cell that is not stainless.
we use koh also
and also at 1.4 volts you start to create hydrogen this tops out at 2.4 volts anything more than that is wasting energy in the form of heat

[liberybell]

To not overheat, you should be using upwards of 7 plates with 5 neutrals. The goal is to get the voltage down to 1.24 volts on each plate. This can be accomplished with a 14 volt system (like in a car) by having 10 or 11 plates

+nnnnnnnn-

yielding less than 1.4 volts per plate. This way most of the current supplied to the plates will be used in HHO production. Also keep in mind that you need to have very good connections between wires and plates because loose connections build up heat fast. You need to use thick steel or just large surface area if you are trying to run a lot of amps through it.

Lastly, I hope you are using something like KOH or NaOH as your electrolyte because that yields best and most stable results.

I am actually trying to use just water. the florided / clorided water that we get in USA.(brought to you by years of push from the chemical industry, the dentists and AMA, and their allies in congress.)
I want to test with just water and keep the amps between 10 to 25 and the temp between 120-160F. Most american cars can yield that much juice...
So my plate configuration can be a little more aggressive, right?
Your configuration with so many n plates cannot yield the right production of hho. Am I mistaking?
A set of -nnnnnn+ has a great low temp but a poor hho production. Right?
I am not afraid of temps above 140F and amps above 20. I just need to make it stable. so we can produce 2L/m or so.
Viva España!! (Euro Cup anybody??)

[mneste8718]

I am actually trying to use just water. the florided / clorided water that we get in USA.(brought to you by years of push from the chemical industry, the dentist and AMA association, and their alleys in congress.)
I want to test with just water and keep the amps between 10 to 25 and the temp between 120-160F. Most american cars can yield that much of juice...
So my plate configuration can be a little more aggressive, right?
Your configuration with so many n plates can yield the right production of hho. Am I mistaking?
A set of -nnnnnn+ has a great low temp but a poor hho production. Right?
I am not afraid of temps above 140F and amps above 20. I just need to make it stable. so we can produce 2L/m
Viva España!! (Euro Cup anybody??)

The problem with regular water is that there are more minerals in it than you think that just gunk up the whole system.

I am currently using 7 plate design with 5 neutrals. Works like a charm and I am getting 35mpg which is a 7-8mpg increase on my 2L turbo car (300hp too). I can't judge the temperature exactly, but I can touch it easily but it is right on the line of being hot.

Using more neutrals leads to using more KOH so that you can get more current but this has a somewhat paradoxical effect as well because of how most HHO gens are designed. Because of the increased amount of KOH in the water, the water itself can conduct more current and some current will jump around the plates to the last one and as result create heat and inefficiency. The only way to solve the problem is to have the outer edges of the generator sealed off so that it does not allow current to jump past the neutral plates.

Finally, my conclusions are from all my testing is that if you want high amps going through the plates. The plates need to either be thick or have a lot of surface area + they should be sealed off from one another for maximum efficiency.

....I was hoping the Russians would win heh... now I can hope that Spain will win over Germany b/c I hate the German players.

[liberybell]

Good point about the space between neutral plates and the rest of the housing area.
I am thinking (my patent secret) to implement a 8 plates per series setup enclose and submerge on the electrolyte but isolated from the cooling electrolyte system (I cannot give all the details away). But your idea match my pattern plan quiet closely.

I am an Spaniard that has follow the world cups and the Euro cups for a long time. And in the pass I have always said that Spain had the heart but missed the unity... unity display in pass tournaments by Brazil, Argentina, and most recently Cameroon (WC-2006; even though they were not allowed to win?!) It is the beauty of the play what brings the world together... no the single out shots from a advantaged player or play what it makes this sport the number one sport in the universe... it is the beauty of the formation and the synchronization between the players.
¡¡Viva España!!

[dennis13030]

Sort of related to this testing, has anyone done an "Curve Trace" or "IV" test on a single 2 plate cell?

This is where you connect the plates to a variable DC source and starting at 0V, sweep the voltage up to maybe 5V while measuring the current. I would expect the current vs. voltage chart to look a bit like a curve.

If anyone has this or a link to it, I would like to see it.