Winterizing A generator

[ShowMeHHO]

I have read where you can use METHYL ALCOHOL alcohol and some say green antifreeze . Temp is supposed to reach 30 this week and it gets allot colder than that when winter hits ..
My generator hold 48 to 54 fluid oz of distilled water and electrolyte my question is how much do I use ? and can one get it safe at very low temps (15 or below) or should I just drain it ?
I am in Missouri and I know it gets allot colder up North anyone living in those cold temps your advice would be appreciated .
Again How much to add to my 50 fluid oz of water I need to know

Thanks

[Honda_Hydroxy]

I can't remember where I found this, but here it is. Copied from another forum, I believe.

[ShowMeHHO]

I can't remember where I found this, but here it is. Copied from another forum, I believe.


I couldn't open file ???

[Honda_Hydroxy]

copy and paste:

ALWAYS PRE-MIX the electrolyte in an open container when adding denatured alcohol to the Sodium Hydroxide and distilled water. Let the mixture sit, uncontained/uncapped, for about 30 minutes before adding the mixture to the MileageMaker device.

The cell, like other pieces of equipment utilizing H2O that is exposed to below freezing elements, must be protected from freezing hard during cold weather. This can be accomplished by adding denatured alcohol in order to achieve a 5% to 15% alcohol solution. A 5% solution (about 8 liquid oz. per gallon of water) will protect against a hard freeze down to about 10º F.. A 10% solution (about 13 liquid oz. per gallon of water) will protect against a hard freeze down to about 0º F.. A 15% solution (about 21 liquid oz. per gallon) will protect against a hard freeze down to about -15º F.. 28 ounces per gallon will protect to about -30ºF..

For below-freezing initial start-up: Mix 1 gallon distilled water, denatured alcohol (8 to 28 liquid oz.), and Sodium Hydroxide 32 oz. by weight, in an open container and let the mixture sit open for 30 minutes before closing or transferring the mixture to a closed container. There will be an initial reaction causing the mixture to get very warm and expand, so keep the mixing container open to accommodate the heating and expansion, before capping the mixing container or adding the mixture to the cells.

When the cell requires replacement electrolyte for continued below-freezing operation, be sure to include 8 to 28 liquid ounces of denatured alcohol with each gallon of distilled water, along with 1/2 ounce by weight (about 1 teaspoon) of Sodium Hydroxide in the replacement water to maintain the 5% to 15% alcohol solution and replace any Sodium Hydroxide in the cells, which may have been neutralized with use.

[Scooterdog]

copy and paste:

ALWAYS PRE-MIX the electrolyte in an open container when adding denatured alcohol to the Sodium Hydroxide and distilled water. Let the mixture sit, uncontained/uncapped, for about 30 minutes before adding the mixture to the MileageMaker device.

The cell, like other pieces of equipment utilizing H2O that is exposed to below freezing elements, must be protected from freezing hard during cold weather. This can be accomplished by adding denatured alcohol in order to achieve a 5% to 15% alcohol solution. A 5% solution (about 8 liquid oz. per gallon of water) will protect against a hard freeze down to about 10º F.. A 10% solution (about 13 liquid oz. per gallon of water) will protect against a hard freeze down to about 0º F.. A 15% solution (about 21 liquid oz. per gallon) will protect against a hard freeze down to about -15º F.. 28 ounces per gallon will protect to about -30ºF..

For below-freezing initial start-up: Mix 1 gallon distilled water, denatured alcohol (8 to 28 liquid oz.), and Sodium Hydroxide 32 oz. by weight, in an open container and let the mixture sit open for 30 minutes before closing or transferring the mixture to a closed container. There will be an initial reaction causing the mixture to get very warm and expand, so keep the mixing container open to accommodate the heating and expansion, before capping the mixing container or adding the mixture to the cells.

When the cell requires replacement electrolyte for continued below-freezing operation, be sure to include 8 to 28 liquid ounces of denatured alcohol with each gallon of distilled water, along with 1/2 ounce by weight (about 1 teaspoon) of Sodium Hydroxide in the replacement water to maintain the 5% to 15% alcohol solution and replace any Sodium Hydroxide in the cells, which may have been neutralized with use.

And now that you are no longer using water, (mixing water with anything becomes a different chemical compound) you accomplish what? That's like saying "I mixed water with my antifreeze 50/50, it's water and antifreeze". No, no, no it's not.

[lastic]

I will be useing battery warmer to keep my cell warm during the night.

[llurkin]

Excellent solution. The battery warmer uses house current, and will not affect your battery.

[coffeeachiever]

And now that you are no longer using water, (mixing water with anything becomes a different chemical compound) you accomplish what? That's like saying "I mixed water with my antifreeze 50/50, it's water and antifreeze". No, no, no it's not.

Scooterdog, that is a very purist point of view. There is nothing wrong with that, but most of us have to do what is most practical for our situation. If we were to be complete purists, we would not add electrolyte to the water either.
For me, I think isopropyl alcohol is going to be the best option. My truck sits outside constantly. It is not feasable to have a constant drain on my battery to warm the cell. If a couple of bucks worth of alcohol will get my gen through the winter without freezing, then I really have no choice but to use it.
I understand and respect the desire to function on principle, but you have to know when to bend and compromise for your own benifit. Maybe soon we will figure out another way.

[scrode]

scooterdick was banned awhile ago :cool:

[coffeeachiever]

I see that now. Thanks.

[Randohr]

So far my cells have not stopped producing with just the KOH as the anti freeze. I know this will not last. It is 15 f right now and I bet I'm getting slush. My next step is to completely wrap the cells in an insulation blanket. Like a home hot water heater. My cells produce very little heat because of the low supply voltage. I'm researching ways on how to create a 12vdc heater; wire wrapped around the cell and a few current limiting resistors might work. (then wrapped in insulation). I put -32 f washer fluid in the bubblers so they don't freeze, works good.

[redneck323]

So far my cells have not stopped producing with just the KOH as the anti freeze. I know this will not last. It is 15 f right now and I bet I'm getting slush. My next step is to completely wrap the cells in an insulation blanket. Like a home hot water heater. My cells produce very little heat because of the low supply voltage. I'm researching ways on how to create a 12vdc heater; wire wrapped around the cell and a few current limiting resistors might work. (then wrapped in insulation). I put -32 f washer fluid in the bubblers so they don't freeze, works good.


Boy does this open up a whole new complex...huh? Running a 12v heater at x amount of amperage(how much is enough to maintain a just above freezing electolyte temp.). Then how much amp hours does my lead acid battey have, since its not a deep cell its rated in CCA because it isnt designed for long term amp draw(ie Ah or amp hours). CCA = Cold Cranking Amps which is only what needed to be considered until introducing a current draw with the vehicle not running ( ie. alternator not charging). So now how much energy do we need to draw to keep our cells from freezing, obviously will vary due to several conditions ambient temperature/ electrolyte volume and insulation of the cell which for some of us will be a problem. Since we use convection from air flow to keep our cells cool, and to further that thought now we have a load on the battery that we need to figure out how much can we draw and still have our car start the next morning , but what about on the other end? We also now have a partially discharged battery that now we have to recharge by use of the alternator which has a maximum output. Can we prevent to much strain on the alternator from running our cells (ie 30 amps for some) plus now we are introducing a discharged battery into the loop (which i am a former auto tech and have seen many burned up alternators due to bad batterys causing a constant load from therefore burning them up). LOL Holy cow lots of things to be tested. Taking these thoughts even deeper is the energy needed to turn the alternator. Obviously it takes energy (ie. fuel) to produce the current needed to recharge the battery and run the cell. So now you are burning more fuel with the car not even running LOL. Anyone else have this stuff swirling around in your minds lol. Oh i have been thinking about something else which i think i know the answer. but i bought a heating blanket from wal-mart for my cell. Now the purpose of the HHO cell is to maximize combustion efficency and save fuel. IE save money/enviroment so how efficient is running a 12v heater off your battery overnight then recharging on the next drive cycle vs using a 120volt ac heating blanket on my cell plugged into house current. (since most diesel trucks use 120 volt ac block heaters i have to assume that this is the best choice) which makes sense kinda for cost reasons. The electric company produces electricity in bulk so therefore it is probably more cost efficient to heat the cell by use of house current and have that passed on to my elec. bill. Sorry for the long post guys just some thoughts i think i should pass on / get out after all thats what the forum is about huh?? LOL

Thanks,
Carl

[Randohr]

I'm back. Thanks for the long winded reply. I couldn't even finish reading it. As follow-up: I insulated the cells with fiberglass house insulation and never had an issue all last winter. I'll do the same this year. I don't get caught up in all the calculation anymore. I use 90% intuitive observation and 10% raw common sense. I get good mpg gains with my brute force designs and that's my goal! yea baby