Cooling System

[frosty121]

Hi folks, bulding my first system and based on my understanding of thermodynamics, I had a thought to run by everyone.

1. We as HHO builders are limited by two main factors - Amperage draw and heat. So I have a thought to counter both. I have a 89 Chevy fullsize that I need a large system for as I am sick of 12 MPG and I drive 110 miles to work a day.

2. I have a smog delete engine (i.e. no smog pump, but have the bracket there none the less) I am going to fabricate a way to use this to mount a second alternator that I have and run it to the bed mounted tool box where a second, dedicated HHO battery will be located. That should give me the ability to substain a 50+ Amp draw ... but wait we have too much heat.

3. I have a friend that is great with SS and I am going to have him fabricate a SS cooler mch like a tranny cooler. I will use a Marine grade water pump with SS impellers to move the HHO water through the cooler and use cooling fans to keep temp at bay. While I know on hot South Carolina days, this may not be enought for substained use, cooler days and winter days should work quite well.

4. The pump also gives me the ability to use a large reserve tank that will cause the reserve to mix with the in use catalist and effectively dampin the heat in the chamber for some time. My drive to work is a mix of interstate and several small towns, so I was thinking that I could use a RPM monitor to shut HHO production off while under about 1300 RPM so that while in start and stop driving the system would have more time to cool

Keep in mind that cooling is logarithmic and heating is exponitial for most cases so that translates into a rapid cooling of the catalist when very hot at first, then it slows the closer if gets to equilibrium with the ambiant temperature.

Any thoughts or previous test?

Thanks ....

[richardb200373]

Just my opinion, I would shoot for a lot less amps, maybe do 2 or 3 different cells each drawing 6 to 8 amps and try to get each one to produce 1lpm. you are right on target with the cooling system I think. Where can you find pumps with SS internal parts? I have found a few, but a little high on price.

[frosty121]

Richard, You are right, I did not go into enough details. I plan to build several cells each with thier own CB and fuses so if one cell goes bad the other keep functioning. Thanks for pointing that out.

As for the pumps ... the are not cheap, but niether is gas these days:D

I have found a few in the BIG West Marine cataloge, but they still are not cheap. I am going to keep looking in hope of finding another cheaper solution.

You can find a lot of SS pumps for the industrial / chemical industry that would do the job, but they are all AC and I do not want to get into running an inverter on the system. If anyone finds a cheap pump I would love to hear. This and the SS cooling unit are my two largest expenses in building the system.

[BoyntonStu]

Heat. Where does it come from?

If the electrolyte solution is less than optimum, the resistance will be higher than at the correct percentage of NaOH or KOH.

What follows is not accurrate but used for illlustration only.

Assume that your KOH solution is much less than 27% - 28%% this is what happens:

Assume further, that 27% is 1 Ohm for your spacing and that 10% is 2 ohms.

Power causing heat = IxI x R

For 30 amps it would be 30 x 30 x 1 or 900 Watts heat power in 27%.

Fo the same current in 10% the heat power would be 1,800 Watts .

But, you say, the current would be too high if you make your solution 27%.


You are correct if you are not using a PWM.

With a PWM you can adjust the current downwards and keep the flow.

IOW Don't build coolers before you have designed a cooler running cell.

I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

[frosty121]

BoyntonStu

The primary source of my heat will naturally be the catalist / HHO production, but this willl be amplified by the closed compartment of the tool box on the truck. Most (I think) place their systems under the hood, so while they have heat from the ICE, they still have airflow. While I will have limited movement with the fans, the primary use of the fans is the remove any creaping H H from the box so that the lide does not get blown off :eek:

Thanks for the calcs man! Save me a lot of trouble later. Gotta drive to the gym (in the vette to save gas of course :D ) I will have to do some # crunching when I get back.

THX

[frosty121]

BoyntonStu,

Do you by chance have the coefficents for resistance for different catalist when combined with distilled water (we can assume pure H2O for calculation purposes)?

Or does anyone else ??

[DaneDHorstead]

Why not use a bilge pump? They are readilly available, inexpensive, and made to be used in salt water, so electrolyte, shouldn't present a problem.

You would however need to enclose it, in an open bath, but as I see it, in your set up, that shouldn't present a problem.

[Roland Jacques]

Best i can tell ideal temp is 145 F. Design your cell to run cooler than that, etrolyte... To me to me using watts to cool what you just used extra watts to heat is not the way to go IMO.

[Painless]

If anyone finds a cheap pump I would love to hear.

Sureflo makes some cheap pumps in the $50-$60 range that run at 1GPM with 1amp. They are diaphragm based, but that's ideal in this situation.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_357081_357081

[BoyntonStu]

Sureflo makes some cheap pumps in the $50-$60 range that run at 1GPM with 1amp. They are diaphragm based, but that's ideal in this situation.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_357081_357081


If you are running without a PWM and have $60 to spend, I recommend that you consider buying a PWM first.


Or: Salvage a wheelchair speed controller or take one from a golf cart.

Or: Use an RC ESC http://cgi.ebay.com/EL-Model-RC-110A-High-Current-Speed-Controller-ESC_W0QQitemZ270277700518Q

Or: Buy a PWM made for HHO.

BoyntonStu