cully's Cell test

[cully]

hello all just an update on my cell I'm building
Ive run a few test now and have some results to show

the unit is based on the smacks design and is connected as

+nnnn--nnnn+
the plates are 165mm x 50mm with a spacing of 1.6mm

i have found that the 2 - plates in the centre works well in reducing the heat transfer into the connections on the top of the enclosure
now to the results

First test at start temp was 18C
Volts: 12.6
Amps: 13
ML: 825
Time: 60 seconds
LPM: 0.825
MMW: 5.03663

Second test after 1 hour running temp was 58C
Volts: 11.5
Amps: 21
ML: 1000
Time: 45 seconds
LPM: 1.333
MMW: 4.1407

i have now insulated all the drop and link connections, also wrapped the cell, just by doing this it has reduced the current draw of the cell, so i had to up the solution of KOH to get the current draw back. thus increasing the HHO output.
the temperature seems to rise until it gets to 60C then it stabilises not getting any higher.

another thing Ive found when the cell is producing its most HHO my bubbler cant cope and all the deionised water gets forced out of it, so i have to build a bigger one with more liquid volume


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/cully/hho/nnnn-x2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/cully/hho/nnnn-x2out.jpg

[mario brito]

Nice work ! Nice Smack cell :)

Keep going :)

Thanks

[cully]

Ive been testing again
the first set of test above wear powered off of a battery and charger
thus giving me lower voltage than 13.8V which is the charging voltage of lead acid battery's.

i have gone and measured the charging voltage of my car and with light fans engine and a 10Amp hho cell load the charging voltage is 14Volts

so i have now wound a microwave transformer and fitted it with a bridge rectifier to give me a DC voltage of 14Volts

so with this new power supply i have run my tests again here are my new results

First test at start temp was 19.3C
Volts: 14v
Amps: 10.5amp
ML: 630
Time: 60 seconds
LPM: 0.630
MMW: 4.5

2nd test at 15mins temp was 32.4C
Volts: 13.67v
Amps: 14.7amp
ML: 940
Time: 60 seconds
LPM: 0.940
MMW: 4.67

3rd test at 30mins temp was 48.5C
Volts: 13.3v
Amps: 18amp
ML: 1000
Time: 60 seconds
LPM: 1
MMW: 4.17

4th test at 45mins temp was 59.3C
Volts: 13.v
Amps: 19.8amp
ML: 1000
Time: 55 seconds
LPM: 1.09
MMW: 3.88

5th test at 60mins temp was 67.4C
Volts: 13v
Amps: 19.3amp
ML: 1000
Time: 58 seconds
LPM: 1.03
MMW: 3.98

i noted the the temperature was running away at this voltage and current

this cell dose not like running at 14 v but it was happy at the lower voltage test

by doing some maths with the volt drop across cells and supply voltage
(i drew a graph voltdrop per cell against supply voltage)
on my 11 volt power supply my cell was optimum

@ 2.75v on 11v the config is +NNNN- -NNNN+

looking at the graph the optimum for 14v is

@ 2.8V on 14v the config is +NNNNN- -NNNNN+

conclusion to this is it looks like i need to add another neutral plate
to bring the voltage per cell down as @14v across 4 neutrals is 3.5volts
which is too high for my cell

note
if you are bench testing match your bench power supply with what your car/truck produces or you cell might boil or not even work in the vehicle

[Jaxom]

Nice test results. I notice the efficiency came up at 32*C and then dropped off again at higher temperatures....maybe an optimal temperature range?

[cully]

yes at around 40c the graph takes off so like you say probably 32c is optimum for this plate config

i have just place an order for some half nuts so i can rebuild the cell with an extra neutral and still fit in the same enclosure

then i will re run the test and plot a a new lot of graphs

[cully]

have now rebuilt the cells to the config of
+NNNNN- -NNNNN+

the only difference between the 2 configs is the neutral plate centre spacer and the extra neutral on each cell set

picture to follow
and to the test results

First test at start temp was 18.6C
Volts: 14.6v
Amps: 9.5amp
ML: 550
Time: 60 seconds
LPM: 0.550
MMW: 3.965

2nd test at 15mins temp was 27C
Volts: 14.3v
Amps: 12.3amp
ML: 800
Time: 60 seconds
LPM: 0.800
MMW: 4.56

3rd test at 30mins temp was 40C
Volts: 14v
Amps: 15.5amp
ML: 1000
Time: 60 seconds
LPM: 1
MMW: 4.60

4th test at 45mins temp was 54C
Volts: 13.6v
Amps: 17.3amp
ML: 1000
Time: 55 seconds
LPM: 1.09
MMW: 4.25

5th test at 60mins temp was 60C
Volts: 13.5v
Amps: 19amp
ML: 1000
Time: 54 seconds
LPM: 1.11
MMW: 3.898


conclusion........
my prediction in the post was correct !!

this cell dose not like running at 14 v but it was happy at the lower voltage test

by doing some maths with the volt drop across cells and supply voltage
(i drew a graph voltdrop per cell against supply voltage)
on my 11 volt power supply my cell was optimum

@ 2.75v on 11v the config is +NNNN- -NNNN+

looking at the graph the optimum for 14v is

@ 2.8V on 14v the config is +NNNNN- -NNNNN+



so now i need to test what happens when i load the KOH to 15amps cold
this is my optimum production current on my cell but i need to know what happens over time from cold so its time to drain the cell and reload with new electrolyte and re test

[redneckgearhead34]

I have seen the plastic containers that you have been using. I was wondering how well that hold up and how well the top seals?

[Stevo]

have now rebuilt the cells to the config of
+NNNNN- -NNNNN+

conclusion........
my prediction in the post was correct !!

+NNNNN- -NNNNN+ FTW!!!!

Cully,

Have you considered reducing the gap between your plates with this config?

[cully]

+NNNNN- -NNNNN+ FTW!!!!

Cully,

Have you considered reducing the gap between your plates with this config?



whats FTW !!! ?

wouldn't adjusting the concentration of KOH be the same as reducing/increasing the cell electrode gap ??




redneckgearhead34 I have seen the plastic containers that you have been using. I was wondering how well that hold up and how well the top seals?

i have run the container for 1 hour periods 60c the container holds up well,
but the top dose need reinforcing to take the terminations and outlet. the seals hold as long as there is no pressure in the cell if there is pressure it just forces the seals but it dose reseal with out the pressure

[Stevo]

whats FTW !!! ?

wouldn't adjusting the concentration of KOH be the same as reducing/increasing the cell electrode gap ??

i have run the container for 1 hour periods 60c the container holds up well,
but the top dose need reinforcing to take the terminations and outlet. the seals hold as long as there is no pressure in the cell if there is pressure it just forces the seals but it dose reseal with out the pressure

FTW = "For the win". (e.g. LOL = "Laugh Out Loud")

And to your question, yes gap reduction and and concentration can be correlated, but in your case, I think you will see greater efficiency. I built a cell with the same configuration and 1/32" spacing. Puts out a lot for just 3 amps. Just a thought.

[cully]

And to your question, yes gap reduction and and concentration can be correlated, but in your case, I think you will see greater efficiency. I built a cell with the same configuration and 1/32" spacing. Puts out a lot for just 3 amps. Just a thought.


yes i would love to try a 1/32 (.75mm i think) but the thinest plastic washers i can source is 1/16 (1.5mm) i have looked but here in the UK it seems harder to find.. even down to the pipe fittings that smack uses you cant get 4" stop ends and couplers off the shelf

[Stevo]

It's cake. So, I had to make my washers myself and here's what I did:


Purchase some 1/32" thick PTFE sheeting (u could also use cpvc or another material)
Bought a regular paper hole punch and made my holes in the material
Took scissors and cut the washers out to size. (I just kept them square)


There you go, see if that might work for you.