I am impressed by this

[BoyntonStu]

See eBay: 110286752425

This is wonderful!

No containers, slim, high output, low current, etc..

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

That is a nice unit... would really like to see some figures on it.

This is pretty much how I was planning to setup my dry cell, I was thinking of just coiling up some of the return piping behind the grill as a cooling radiator of sorts.

The one thing I wasn't sure about, have been trying to remember my physics, is whether such a configuration would result in water circulation without a pump.

[BoyntonStu]

That is a nice unit... would really like to see some figures on it.

This is pretty much how I was planning to setup my dry cell, I was thinking of just coiling up some of the return piping behind the grill as a cooling radiator of sorts.

The one thing I wasn't sure about, have been trying to remember my physics, is whether such a configuration would result in water circulation without a pump.


Painlesss,

I believe that you are referring to a thermal siphon.

It is used in your hot water heater.

Hot water rises, cool water falls.

I would like a peek inside to see how he connected the gas/water lines.

It is slim, no container, ground is the case, etc....

Way to go.

I was heading in that direction, but he made the leap forward by designing a cell without insulating end plates.

Terrific!

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

My guess, if he has taken the usual dry cell approach, is that there are two holes going through the plates (for electrolyte movement) one through the bottom for the input and one through the top for the return. This is what I have used for my design.

In terms of insulating end plates, I'm using a rubber sheet with plexiglas on top of that, finished off by a thick sheet of aluminum. I'm using this on both ends, the aluminum contains the holes for the compression bolts to keep the sandwich sealed.

[BoyntonStu]

My guess, if he has taken the usual dry cell approach, is that there are two holes going through the plates (for electrolyte movement) one through the bottom for the input and one through the top for the return. This is what I have used for my design.

I basically agree.

Most dry cells have 3 holes. Electrolyte in, out, gas.

His has only 2.

Without a 1" end plate to work with, how did he connect the tubes to the cell?

End plate thicknesses?


BoyntonStu

[chevytruckman1234]

Is this Dry cell better than a wet cell stating to build a wet one and was wondering if I was going the wrong way?

[Painless]

I basically agree.

Most dry cells have 3 holes. Electrolyte in, out, gas.

His has only 2.

Without a 1" end plate to work with, how did he connect the tubes to the cell?

End plate thicknesses?


BoyntonStu

Looking at the ebay photos, it looks like he literally just shoved the tubing into the hole and secured it someway?

[justaguy]

Now that is what we need. Looks like it is producing a lot hho too. Somebody buy it and tear it apart.:)

[Painless]

Perhaps he used a compression joint?

[BoyntonStu]

Looking at the ebay photos, it looks like he literally just shoved the tubing into the hole and secured it someway?

Exactly my question.

What do you guesstimate is the gauge of the end plates?

How is your design in comparison?

It looks like the most logical way to make a generator.

I do not see any negatives, especially after I have proven that I can seal my SS BoyntonPot generator with a compressed PVC gasket.


BTW I am cycling it on/off for 24 hours to condition the plates.

It is running at 9 V @ 10 A. (5 cells)

Isn't this fun?

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

Looking closer at and pausing the video on that ebay auction, it looks like his config is as follows:

-NNNN+NNNN-

I find this especially interesting as so far, when experimenting with this kind of setup, I have placed the negative pole in the middle and the positive on the outside, vice versa to this.

My configuration is thus:

+NNNN-NNNN+

After conditioning and magnetic aligning (I already cross scored the plate surfaces today) I'm definitely going to try a polarity switch just out of pure curiosity. My thinking behind negative in the middle was that current would flow from the center outward, which would present less avenues for current loss in an open bath (voltage entering at the end plates would offer the opportunity for voltage to head off into the electrolyte instead of into the cell pack), although that clearly would not matter with a dry cell.

As for plate gauge, I'm not really sure what he's using there. My plates are Lowes switch plate covers (304SS). I'm trying to keep everything in my design simple in terms of sourcing and working on, mainly because I don't have the facilities (or health) for any serious metal cutting / drilling etc. A plus side of this is that my design should be easily reproducible, if it proves successful.

My design basically goes, from right to left:

Aluminum end
Plexiglas
Rubber insulator
+ Plate
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
- Plate
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
+ Plate
Rubber Insulator
Aluminum End

I've utilized the existing holes in the switch plates for the electrolyte flow. Electrolyte will enter at the bottom holes and exit at the top. On each + Plate one of the holes is sealed shut by the rubber insulator. My theory is that the exit pipe will also carry the HHO.

I haven't mounted the lowes hose fittings yet, I'm planning on threading these through an existing hole in the end plates, through a hole in the plexiglas, feeding/receiving fluid from a channel cut into the rubber insulator leading to the respective top or bottom hole. I'm going to need to shorten the threaded end of the hose fittings and will need some sort of adhesive, I'm unsure what yet, to affix and seal them to the plexiglas.

It's lots of fun! I have my customary two days off Monday and Tuesday and am shooting to have this conditioned and installed by Wednesday afternoon. I'm going to use the floor box bubbler that I found at home depot as a resorvoir for now and source a new bubbler.

[countryboy18]

i think he had the - on the outside so he dosent have to worry about insulating the 2 end plates from the car. just my 2 cents

[wljohns]

Well thats it I have to build one. I think I have found my favorite design thus far.
That one is REALLY impressive. But what to use for gasket? What would the pvc seal be commercially sold as in a small town?

[BoyntonStu]

Is this Dry cell better than a wet cell stating to build a wet one and was wondering if I was going the wrong way?


I suggest that you start wet to learn the ropes.

After gaining some experience you may want to go to a more efficient dry cell.

View the dry cell video and see if you are interested and capable of doing it.

BoyntonStu

[BoyntonStu]

Well thats it I have to build one. I think I have found my favorite design thus far.
That one is REALLY impressive. But what to use for gasket? What would the pvc seal be commercially sold as in a small town?

Go to Lowes or HD and buy a piece of shower stall lining.

$5 a foot.

It works great to seal the BoyntonPot.

[c02cutter]

It is a simple approach to a flooded design. With no regard to the average "joe" installing it. Open plates to possible road crap is so damn wrong. Selling a cell with no regard to installation is so wrong. I have a lot of experience with this type of cell as it is not new. It works! It is nothing but a tero cell revision. $199.00 for what they offer is a rip off. # 1 the plates are not large enough to facilitate true HHO production for the surface area involved (guy holding in video) to do the proper voltage drop in the cell from + to -. There is gasket material involved that is taking away from the production involved. # 2 is they are selling something for the amount of money involved with out addressing any issue with the on board computer electronics involved. I guarantee they had the same problems involved to make it work that way that we all have with all our cells. It is completely miss represented, and I personally will wait to see if they survive the onslaught of how they represent what they are offering. They claim no tank... it takes a tank to supply a flow. The video on bench shows the supply pop bottle. It requires this to run, other wise you wind up with a cell that is a disaster in seconds to run. Concept involved is a known good cell, represented in this auction is wrong in more than I describe. I have this type on the bench running, but so much safer in design. Just simply think about what is being shown, and accident waiting to happen. Look up the Tero cell pdf which operates on the same principle, but needs improvement from the pdf file. If I am wrong, prove me so, I invite it!

[BoyntonStu]

Looking closer at and pausing the video on that ebay auction, it looks like his config is as follows:

-NNNN+NNNN-

I find this especially interesting as so far, when experimenting with this kind of setup, I have placed the negative pole in the middle and the positive on the outside, vice versa to this.

My configuration is thus:

+NNNN-NNNN+

After conditioning and magnetic aligning (I already cross scored the plate surfaces today) I'm definitely going to try a polarity switch just out of pure curiosity. My thinking behind negative in the middle was that current would flow from the center outward, which would present less avenues for current loss in an open bath (voltage entering at the end plates would offer the opportunity for voltage to head off into the electrolyte instead of into the cell pack), although that clearly would not matter with a dry cell.

As for plate gauge, I'm not really sure what he's using there. My plates are Lowes switch plate covers (304SS). I'm trying to keep everything in my design simple in terms of sourcing and working on, mainly because I don't have the facilities (or health) for any serious metal cutting / drilling etc. A plus side of this is that my design should be easily reproducible, if it proves successful.

My design basically goes, from right to left:

Aluminum end
Plexiglas
Rubber insulator
+ Plate
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
- Plate
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
Neutral
Gasket
+ Plate
Rubber Insulator
Aluminum End

I've utilized the existing holes in the switch plates for the electrolyte flow. Electrolyte will enter at the bottom holes and exit at the top. On each + Plate one of the holes is sealed shut by the rubber insulator. My theory is that the exit pipe will also carry the HHO.

I haven't mounted the lowes hose fittings yet, I'm planning on threading these through an existing hole in the end plates, through a hole in the plexiglas, feeding/receiving fluid from a channel cut into the rubber insulator leading to the respective top or bottom hole. I'm going to need to shorten the threaded end of the hose fittings and will need some sort of adhesive, I'm unsure what yet, to affix and seal them to the plexiglas.

It's lots of fun! I have my customary two days off Monday and Tuesday and am shooting to have this conditioned and installed by Wednesday afternoon. I'm going to use the floor box bubbler that I found at home depot as a resorvoir for now and source a new bubbler.

Great post!

Thanks for sharing.

" My theory is that the exit pipe will also carry the HHO."

I dunno. The Terro cell has an outlet at the top above the electrolyte level.

With a pump I think that it will work.

Without a pump, with thermal siphon. I dunno.

If you want to maximize area, tilt the plates/cell about 45* and place an outlet hole near the corner apex.

Aluminum end
Plexiglas

Aluminum to strengthen the Plexiglas against bending?

I use PVC gasket material sold as shower stall lining at Lowes and HD.

You are using rubber. What/where?

+NNNN-NNNN+ I believe that you can add another 'U' or 2 'U's on each side with a very efficient design like this one..

I would try a single setup first before paralleling the second.

The BoyntonPot has been running with 5 cells at 9.5 Volts for the last 6 hours to condition the plates. It will run a few days this way.

Why run 2.5 Volts when less than 2 will do it?

I would opt to put + in the center where the hydrogen is produced and

- to the outside which is chassis ground anyways.

Keep up the good work.

BoyntonStu

[Q-Hack!]

I too, am a little leery of this add. You notice how in video, the vehicle test was done at night and you never see the road? What is to say they didn't wait until a down hill slope to turn on the cell? People on youtube are really bad about posting videos as "proof" and yet they miss the mark by incredible amounts.

[Painless]

Great post!

Thanks for sharing.

" My theory is that the exit pipe will also carry the HHO."

I dunno. The Terro cell has an outlet at the top above the electrolyte level.

With a pump I think that it will work.

Without a pump, with thermal siphon. I dunno.


I too am unsure about this one, my thinking is that pressure will build up as HHO is produced and it will take the easiest way out, which *should* be the pipe. Should make the experiment more interesting to test out these theories.

I've been looking at pumps, as I am keen to maximize circulation for cooling, but they are just so expensive. $50 is a heck of a lot for me right now. I've even been considering ways to use existing energy in the engine or air coming through the grill to power a self made pump.



Aluminum end
Plexiglas

Aluminum to strengthen the Plexiglas against bending?


The plexiglas and rubber insulator are slightly smaller than the cell plates, the aluminum is larger (so that the threaded rod can be connected end to end). With this setup, the plexiglas is 'sandwiched' rather than bent, if you understand what I'm trying to describe?



I use PVC gasket material sold as shower stall lining at Lowes and HD.

You are using rubber. What/where?

Lowes has, in the plumbing isle, something called 'Plumbers Pack', it is basically a 6x6 inch square of rubber about 3/32 inch thick. Each square is just over a dollar each. They also have the same item about half the thickness for just under a dollar.



+NNNN-NNNN+ I believe that you can add another 'U' or 2 'U's on each side with a very efficient design like this one..

I would try a single setup first before paralleling the second.

The BoyntonPot has been running with 5 cells at 9.5 Volts for the last 6 hours to condition the plates. It will run a few days this way.

Why run 2.5 Volts when less than 2 will do it?


I've been toying with either 6 or 7 plates in each set as to which would be the best. I have prepared enough plates to be able to test this too. 7 plates per set, as you mentioned, should make the most sense assuming 13.8 volts.



I would opt to put + in the center where the hydrogen is produced and

- to the outside which is chassis ground anyways.

Keep up the good work.

BoyntonStu

I'm definitely going to run this both ways, not sure if I can think of a reason why it would make any difference in a dry cell though. What's your thinking here?

[BoyntonStu]

I too, am a little leery of this add. You notice how in video, the vehicle test was done at night and you never see the road? What is to say they didn't wait until a down hill slope to turn on the cell? People on youtube are really bad about posting videos as "proof" and yet they miss the mark by incredible amounts.


I didn't pay attention to the road test, only to the generator details.

Most impressive!

If the SS generator puts out Hydroxy with a high MMW and with significant LPM, I will do the rest.

YMMV

BoyntonStu

[HomeGrown]

I'm also very impressed with this setup. Looks like he's using approx. 1/16" thick material for the plates. I'm guessing he has brazed or silver-soldered the hose barb on each end plate. The real question is what the inner plate configuration is.

But once again, we have incomplete information. Great video, but what's he using for an electrolyte solution, and what additional modifications has he done to the vehicle?
I appreciate the 6 minutes of "Radar Love" in the background, but some value-added verbal explanation would be more appropriate to get people to want to spend $200.

[Haywire Haywood]

If you want to maximize area, tilt the plates/cell about 45* and place an outlet hole near the corner apex.

I was thinking that with this design you aren't limited by plate shape and you could make the tops of the plates slope towards the center like the roof of a house with the H collection at the peak.

About the circulation.. I don't think it's heat that's causing flow, it's the hho itself. it's a totally flooded unit. When you produce hho, the gas rises and goes out the exit tube, leaving a void behind and pushing the fluid in the hose ahead of it, causing slight positive pressure in the reservoir/bubbler which then causes flow back to the generator through the return line.

About the exterior plates being ground. All you'd have to do is design some flanges into one of the end plates and use them to mount to your generator to car chassis and use your car as the return. That way you'd only need one connection to the cell itself.

Ian

[BoyntonStu]

I'm also very impressed with this setup. Looks like he's using approx. 1/16" thick material for the plates. I'm guessing he has brazed or silver-soldered the hose barb on each end plate. The real question is what the inner plate configuration is.

But once again, we have incomplete information. Great video, but what's he using for an electrolyte solution, and what additional modifications has he done to the vehicle?
I appreciate the 6 minutes of "Radar Love" in the background, but some value-added verbal explanation would be more appropriate to get people to want to spend $200.

Let's say that this generator really pumps gas efficiently and we want to build them for ourselves.

If 10 of us put in $20 we would know the secret.

OTOH cutter may have the same or better and his work is superb.

He says that he is testing 5 similar units as we speak.

I would rather deal with Cutter than a guy on eBay that I know nothing about.

The mods the the vehicle are not necessary to building a generator but if the mods were effective the information would be a bonus.

There are many possibilities.

Bottom line. I would rather have a dry cell than a container cell, wouldn't you?

As Cutter points out, this eBay SS gen needs a few polishing touches such as insulation and dirt protection.

This is exciting!

BoyntonStu

[Haywire Haywood]

Rethinking that, since the bubbler is vented to the engine, there would be no positive pressure, but it would leave a vacuum behind it and push water ahead of it. You know what I think I thought I meant... LOL

Ian

[BoyntonStu]

I was thinking that with this design you aren't limited by plate shape and you could make the tops of the plates slope towards the center like the roof of a house with the H collection at the peak.

About the circulation.. I don't think it's heat that's causing flow, it's the hho itself. it's a totally flooded unit. When you produce hho, the gas rises and goes out the exit tube, leaving a void behind and pushing the fluid in the hose ahead of it, causing slight positive pressure in the reservoir/bubbler which then causes flow back to the generator through the return line.

About the exterior plates being ground. All you'd have to do is design some flanges into one of the end plates and use them to mount to your generator to car chassis and use your car as the return. That way you'd only need one connection to the cell itself.

Ian

Ian,

Great points.

The tilting suggestion was meant for the Lowes wall plates, and not for custom shaped plates.

One lead, 2 outlets is neat!

"All you'd have to do is design some flanges into one of the end plates and use them to mount to your generator to car chassis and use your car as the return."

You have the bolts/nuts at both ends. A pair of "L" brackets And you are there. You don't have to incorporate the mounting as part of the plate.

Excellent point about the flow.

"I was thinking that with this design you aren't limited by plate shape and you could make the tops of the plates slope towards the center like the roof of a house with the H collection at the peak."

Actually, it is easier to use rectangular plates and create the roof line with the gaskets. Less wasted SS.

Second thought, why is a roof shape needed?

Keep the electrolyte in your brain flowing. ;>)

BoyntonStu

[Bossman]

I too, am a little leery of this add. You notice how in video, the vehicle test was done at night and you never see the road? What is to say they didn't wait until a down hill slope to turn on the cell? People on youtube are really bad about posting videos as "proof" and yet they miss the mark by incredible amounts.


Look at the Vid close, around 3 min , I see the speedo just a couple of times. I bet the vehicle was on a lift or Emmission test machine, something is fishy.Speedo's dont jump.

[BoyntonStu]

Look at the Vid close, around 3 min , I see the speedo just a couple of times. I bet the vehicle was on a lift or Emmission test machine, something is fishy.Speedo's dont jump.

Look at the bubbles!

Why does anyone care if/how/whether he knows how to use Hydroxy effectively.

That is not the point.

As a seller of a product that makes bubbles, he should have stuck to bubbles.


Even better, show us proof of MMW and LPM!

BoyntonStu

[Haywire Haywood]

Second thought, why is a roof shape needed?

The gas will naturally rise to the highest point in the cell. If you turn a rectanguar dry cell to 45deg, the gas will collect in that top corner. If you design the cell to have a peak at the top, the gas will naturally collect there and that is where you have your exit port. If you don't create some kind of slope to direct the gas to your exit point, you will have pockets of gas that get trapped and don't make it out. Your car won't be straight and level all the time. H that does get trapped still takes up space in the cell, so it pushes water out and into the reservoir. When your car leans the other way, the trapped H will run out the exit and create a "surge" of H rather than an even flow. I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to just mount a square one point up.

I get accused of over thinking things sometimes. Can't be true can it? :)

Ian

[BoyntonStu]

The gas will naturally rise to the highest point in the cell. If you turn a rectanguar dry cell to 45deg, the gas will collect in that top corner. If you design the cell to have a peak at the top, the gas will naturally collect there and that is where you have your exit port. If you don't create some kind of slope to direct the gas to your exit point, you will have pockets of gas that get trapped and don't make it out. Your car won't be straight and level all the time. H that does get trapped still takes up space in the cell, so it pushes water out and into the reservoir. When your car leans the other way, the trapped H will run out the exit and create a "surge" of H rather than an even flow. I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to just mount a square one point up.

I get accused of over thinking things sometimes. Can't be true can it? :)

Ian

Ian,

On some cells the electrolyte level is controlled by the placement of the hoses. The outlet for gas is about 3mm or more above the waterline.

OTOH I have no idea of what happens with the gas if the cell has electrolyte running through it.

It also seems to me that the gas would naturally flow to the lowest pressure point.

Methinks that a simple 2 plate cell would clear all of this up.

Boyntonstu



BoyntonStu

[Haywire Haywood]

Hmmm I was operating under the assumption that the cell was completely flooded with no "water line".

My take on it:

The gas, being lighter than the water it's in, bubbles to the surface and runs to the highest point available to it. It will never go down, or sink, to reach an outlet. What it will do is accumulate at the highest point in the cell until it has created a pocket large enough to uncover the exit port at which time it will start flowing. That in a nutshell is how lowering the exit port establishes the water line in a closed cell like that. Having a closed cell less than completely flooded is a waste of plate area IMO. If you have the exit port at a peak or at an upturned corner, the gas exits as it's made and you have the entire surface area of the cell for production. I think the pumping action would work much better this way also.

Ian

[chevytruckman1234]

Refering to drycell

I CAN GET YOU SOME PICS. I USE SODIUM HYDROXIDE. ALL KINDS OF GADGETS TO GET THAT KIND OF MILEAGE INCREASE. THIS CELL IS MORE EFFECEINT THAN A SOAKED CELL. THIS SAME INCREASE WAS ACHEIVED WITH A SOAKED CELL DRAWING TWICE THE AMPS. 1.5 LPM @ 15 AMPS THANKS

That is what I got from him so far on ebay he said that he would send me some pics we will have to see if he does

[HomeGrown]

I got a pretty much useless reply from him when I asked:

1) What are you using for electrolyte solution
2) What other modifications have you done to the truck to achieve your MPG as shown in the video?

He replied back that I should watch the videos in his other auctions. When I looked at his other auctions, he had music videos posted.

This guy might make a good cell, but as a businessman, he's totally useless and doesn't know how to market his product.

[justaguy]

Apparently he assumes we know what to expect on the videos and entertains us with music.:) I checked his feedback and previous sales. He has built and sold several different designs. One design was an 18 plate putting out 2 lpm with 27 amps.

He said he was told if he doubled the electrolyte he would get 4 lpm. He did a video just for fun with double electrolyte and got 600ml in 9 seconds but he didn,t say how many amps, thats why he said .. just for fun.

I,d say the guy is pretty experienced with him building so many designs and is probably legit.

[redneckgearhead34]

my $.02

I like the idea especially do the compact design. Us with small vehicles appreciate this. I would have to turn up a corner so the all the hho flowed to that corner therefore letting it flow out easier.

I am planning on building one of these fairly soon

[BoyntonStu]

my $.02

I like the idea especially do the compact design. Us with small vehicles appreciate this. I would have to turn up a corner so the all the hho flowed to that corner therefore letting it flow out easier.

I am planning on building one of these fairly soon

This design sure looks like it solves many problems.

No container, compact, cooling, etc.

My main concern is connecting the tubes to the plate.

Welding and brazing are doable, but not easily done by DIYers.

Epoxy? perhaps.

Hot melt adhesive? Very few are capable of standing up to the electrolyte. See: http://www.bostik-us.com/TDS/TDSFiles/6368.pdf

Goop? I dunno.

What are your thoughts?


BoyntonStu

[Haywire Haywood]

Zerofossilfuel likes that 3M white marine adhesive.

Ian

[Stevo]

It is a simple approach to a flooded design. With no regard to the average "joe" installing it. Open plates to possible road crap is so damn wrong...


The gas will naturally rise to the highest point in the cell. If you turn a rectanguar dry cell to 45deg, the gas will collect in that top corner. If you design the cell to have a peak at the top, the gas will naturally collect there and that is where you have your exit port....

These are really good points. Haywire's point is a very good one. The only place to have the exit port is at the topmost span of the cell unless you are driving on an endless level plane.

And to co2cutter's point, the fact that the seller is telling the buyer they don't need a container is just a tab bit scary. Aren't the two outer plates active? As already mentioned, accident waiting to happen. This cell is like a very crude version of Zero's flooded cell generator, except he actually considered all of these things as he built. Without some sort of a flood shelf to protect the outlet from flooding, gas buildup is possible which can push the water out of the cell.

[BoyntonStu]

These are really good points. Haywire's point is a very good one. The only place to have the exit port is at the topmost span of the cell unless you are driving on an endless level plane.

And to co2cutter's point, the fact that the seller is telling the buyer they don't need a container is just a tab bit scary. Aren't the two outer plates active? As already mentioned, accident waiting to happen. This cell is like a very crude version of Zero's flooded cell generator, except he actually considered all of these things as he built. Without some sort of a flood shelf to protect the outlet from flooding, gas buildup is possible which can push the water out of the cell.

The 2 outer plates are ground (-) and they may be directly attached to the frame of your car with no electrical risk.

In fact, you could mount "L" brackets using the generator bolts.

Perhaps the "U" plates should have a wrap to prevent gunk from shorting them.

I am very impressed by this compact and efficient design with the remaining doubt of how to connect the tubes to the plates.


"the fact that the seller is telling the buyer they don't need a container"

I think he said cooler.

BoyntonStu

[JojoJaro]

I am very impressed by this compact and efficient design with the remaining doubt of how to connect the tubes to the plates.


You can use a thicker plate for the 2 outside plates. Thicker plates will allow you to tap and screw in the barb connections.

BTW, am I the only one bothered by many to reverse engineer somebody's hard work. I'm all for trying to figure out what he has done from public information, but trying to email or call him for info pretending to be interested in buying the unit, to me is not very kosher. There was even a suggestion of group buying one to reverse engineer it and reveal the details in this forum.

Guys, that is not cool. We are in a capitalistic economy and somebody has some expectation to gain from his invention and not have it reversed engineered and revealed in public. If you believe in free dessimination of info, that's good, I do to. But we need to have some ethical boundaries in place with regard to sharing somebody's info. If you have a cool design and you want to share it, I'm all of it. But sometimes, some people need to have some gain from all their time, resources and money that went into R&D. Analyze the unit all you want from public info, I have no problem with that, but sometimes, we need to be wary of the ethical boundaries we have crossed in the interest of advancing the technology of our movement.

[kg4lhowj]

Apparently he assumes we know what to expect on the videos and entertains us with music.:) I checked his feedback and previous sales. He has built and sold several different designs. One design was an 18 plate putting out 2 lpm with 27 amps.

He said he was told if he doubled the electrolyte he would get 4 lpm. He did a video just for fun with double electrolyte and got 600ml in 9 seconds but he didn,t say how many amps, thats why he said .. just for fun.

I,d say the guy is pretty experienced with him building so many designs and is probably legit.


Its called a "RickRoll" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickroll He is being a smarta$$ especially since he told someone to specifically check the vid for more information. :mad: I wouldn't buy it from him for that reason alone. Wes

[redneckgearhead34]

I agree with JoJo. Make the two outer plates thicker that way you can tap threads for a fitting. Or you could weld small pipes to it if you have those capabilities. I do

[BoyntonStu]

I agree with JoJo. Make the two outer plates thicker that way you can tap threads for a fitting. Or you could weld small pipes to it if you have those capabilities. I do


Another idea is to use a plastic outer plate of sufficient thickness, fitting screwed to it, and gasket the plate to the 2 active end plates.

Not as elegant as welding on a short tube, but doable.

What kind of welding/brazing would do it without embrittlement, etc.?


BoyntonStu

[JojoJaro]

Also, you can JB Weld a nut onto the thin plate and screw a barb onto the nut. Of course, you have to dril the hole on the plate.

[redneckgearhead34]

I have a wire feed welder that can weld stainless steel. i was planning on putting it on a low heat setting and just take my time with it and stop every little bit and let the steel cool down so that it doesnt warp it etc.

I was also wondering if there are down sides of using brass pipe fittings. I have broken my plastic ones before and it is a pain to fix them.

[BoyntonStu]

Also, you can JB Weld a nut onto the thin plate and screw a barb onto the nut. Of course, you have to dril the hole on the plate.


Have you used JB Weld or any other epoxy to seal to SS without deterioration by heat or by the electrolyte?

I have tried silicone, and 2 epoxies with no success.

This Hot Melt looks promising:

http://www.bostik-us.com/TDS/TDSFiles/6368.pdf

All the other Hot Melts that Bostik manufactures indicate FAIR or POOR for caustic or acid use.



BoyntonStu

[JojoJaro]

Have you used JB Weld or any other epoxy to seal to SS without deterioration by heat or by the electrolyte?

I have tried silicone, and 2 epoxies with no success.

This Hot Melt looks promising:

http://www.bostik-us.com/TDS/TDSFiles/6368.pdf

All the other Hot Melts that Bostik manufactures indicate FAIR or POOR for caustic or acid use.



BoyntonStu


JB Weld I think is rated to 500F (or some high value). I have also used JB Weld in an NaOH environment in my Biodiesel processing still. (I use NaOH methoxide in my bio processing.) It seems to hold up well to NaOH Methoxide.

I prefer JB Weld for metal weld than many epoxies, including those supposedly strong marine epoxies. I have successfully used JB Weld to mount a gear pump to wood. I can't believe how strong the bond is. I could not pry the pump off the wood anymore.

[HomeGrown]

If I were building such a cell, I think I'd drill the plate for the hose barb, then machine off the threads below the shoulder of the barb, leaving just enough length to go thru the plate. Then I'd braze the fitting on. This would make for a very strong assembly, although I'm not experienced in brazing, so I don't know how well the stainless would take to brazing.

BTW: I heard back from the seller with a more serious response to my questions:


SODIUM HYDROXIDE IS A GOOD ELECTROLYTE. CELLS RUN COOL AND YOU CAN NEUTRALIZE IT WITH VINEGER IF YOU GET ANY ON YOU. IT ALSO IS EASIER ON THE GASKETS THAN KOH. THIS VEHICLE HAS ALOT OF MODS. THAT ARE ACTIVATED WHEN THE CELL IS ACTIVATED. CURRENT LIMITER AND FREQUENCY MODULATION TO THE CELL. 10% VOLTAGE AMPLIFICATION ON THE O2 SENSOR. AND MANIFOLD PRESSURE.

[BoyntonStu]

If I were building such a cell, I think I'd drill the plate for the hose barb, then machine off the threads below the shoulder of the barb, leaving just enough length to go thru the plate. Then I'd braze the fitting on. This would make for a very strong assembly, although I'm not experienced in brazing, so I don't know how well the stainless would take to brazing.

BTW: I heard back from the seller with a more serious response to my questions:

Brazing experiment #1 done today with success.

However all materials other than SS will affect the electrolyte unless they are seal coated.

What barb material would you use?

Steel bolt to SS pot, propane/oxygen bronze brazing rod with extra flux.

Strong as hell! The photo was taken just after brazing, no cleanup.

BoyntonStu

[redneckgearhead34]

they make ss pipe fittings

http://www.buyfittingsonline.com/Fittings/cat371_1.htm

I think plastic would work otherwise. as long as you didnt try to weld it of course

[HomeGrown]

Nice braze job, Stu! Looks like the braze took really well and flowed in. Like redneckgearhead mentioned, they do make ss pipe fittings, so that would be the material of choice. The way your braze turned out though, I would probably just drill & ream a nice precision hole and put a short piece of 1/4" ss tubing thru the hole and braze it on the outside. The precision hole would minimize braze seeping into the inside face of the plate, while making for a strong assembly. Rethinking my idea of a machined hose barb, that would probably be overkill.

If this part were made in high-production, such as an auto manufacturer (like they'd really produce HHO cells), I think the prefered method would be deep-draw extruding of the hose barb on the end plates, done in a prog die. No messy 2pc. assembly, just a nice clean extrusion.

[BoyntonStu]

Nice braze job, Stu! Looks like the braze took really well and flowed in. Like redneckgearhead mentioned, they do make ss pipe fittings, so that would be the material of choice. The way your braze turned out though, I would probably just drill & ream a nice precision hole and put a short piece of 1/4" ss tubing thru the hole and braze it on the outside. The precision hole would minimize braze seeping into the inside face of the plate, while making for a strong assembly. Rethinking my idea of a machined hose barb, that would probably be overkill.

If this part were made in high-production, such as an auto manufacturer (like they'd really produce HHO cells), I think the prefered method would be deep-draw extruding of the hose barb on the end plates, done in a prog die. No messy 2pc. assembly, just a nice clean extrusion.

I only wish that production would be high enough to consider a piece end plate. Perhaps laser welding first step?

What I was thinking of doing is to first braze a piece of SS tubing cut from a SS coffee percolator stem (what else? lol) to the end plate and drill it out afterward.

BTW The tube stem of the coffee percolator is neatly welded to its conical base. A very beautiful weld.

Brazing followed by drilling would prevent any migration of the bronze material to the active side of the plate.

I intend to braze 1" long 1/4 - 20 steel contact bolts to the end plates.

BoyntonStu

[Stevo]

Perhaps the "U" plates should have a wrap to prevent gunk from shorting them.


Yeh that's sorta what I meant by my comment. I could see the best practice being in actually enclosing the whole thing in polycarbonate or wrapping with pvc wrap to prevent.