Hydrogen Brittleness and Piston Rings

[otrcomm]

I have read that hydrogen brittleness is a problem for metals with hardness greater than 30 HRC and that most piston rings in today's vehicles have hardness greater than 30 HRC. For example, most Japanese and European vehicles use gas nitrided rings that give them a hardness of about 68 HRC (ref. http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar293.htm). It appears that if this is the case, then the hydrogen we are putting into our cylinders has the potential to cause hydrogen brittleness in the rings.

Does anyone have the time to rebuild an engine, then run it on hho for a few thousand miles, and then tear it down again to test the hydrogen brittleness on the rings?

Along similar lines, how would we go about measuring if there is hydrogen blow by at the rings on the compression stroke? I suspect that this might have an impact on maximum hho utilization efficiency.

[otrcomm]

420 stainless steel that is used in gas nitrided piston rings is very prone to hydrogen brittleness (ref. http://popeyethewelder.piczo.com/?g=44962786&cr=7).

BTW, 316L stainless steel is not prone to hydrogen brittleness.

[scrode]

I read somewhere a discussion on hho causing brittleness. And what they said was, that the amount that is used, is too small and diluted with gas in a reducing environment, that it won't cause any harm to metals in the engine.

[timetowinarace]

I read somewhere a discussion on hho causing brittleness. And what they said was, that the amount that is used, is too small and diluted with gas in a reducing environment, that it won't cause any harm to metals in the engine.

Correct. I believe your engine will die of natural causes before hydrogen can hurt it much. I'm not convinced yet that pure hydrogen will be harmfull either.

[otrcomm]

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to this thread, I been busy with other things.

Yeah, I didn't really think that hydrogen brittleness was a show stopper, I just like to cover all bases to be sure we haven't overlooked something :)

[hygear]

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to this thread, I been busy with other things.

Yeah, I didn't really think that hydrogen brittleness was a show stopper, I just like to cover all bases to be sure we haven't overlooked something :)

To put your minds at ease,hydrogen embrittlement caused by using hho is a myth.All the hype came a company selling a product called XADO which Like most oil additives is just snake oil,darn high priced snake oil I might add(over $100 for 27 ml).There's more hydrogen in your gasoline than you can inject with hho.Gasoline if my memorys correct has 8 atoms of hydrogen and 2 atoms of carbon.So bottom line is,keep pumping that hho and save some gas guys.

[redneckgearhead34]

We have to give him credit for making sure that we haven;t overlooked a potential problem

[ranger2.3]

I just hope Hydrogen embrittlement doesn't cause a problem, that would really suck!!!