Methanol electrolysis

[Cadillac]

After reading that first NASA paper I tried to look around as I heard them mentioning methanol as a way to produce hydrogen. I came up with another NASA paper about the Methanol electrolysis. Hydrogen from Methanol (www.methanol.org/pdf/JPL_DMFC.pdf)

The only downside I see after reading it over once would be the extra money in making one as you would have to find a way to reduce CO2, water and methanol from making it's way into the engine.

[JojoJaro]

Methanol will also evaporate by itself at room temp and pressure. The evaporation rate increases significantly at 100F or so. So, unless you deliberately want to introduce Methanol fumes into your engine, it is not a practical idea.

[djerickd]

I see DANGER written all over it as it's already flammable. I inject methanol into my car for power but, I'd be afraid to drop my electrodes into that tank!!

[Cadillac]

Gasoline's idea ratio is 14.7:1

Methanol's is 6.8:1

Hydrogen is 34:1

I would think that there should be more cause for concern in terms of flamability from hydrogen or gasoline in comparison to methanol.

The only people that I know that even consider injecting methanol into their cars are running extreme amounts of boost. Whether turbo or superchargers you are effectively upping the VE of the car it is on. By doing this and the heat associated in forced induction there is a higher chance of pre ignition. The methanol is something that is added because it has an increase resistance to being burned.

The alcohol keeps water from freezing. Water keeps the methanol from evaporating, ....as dramatically.

[Cadillac]

Not that anyone seems interested in this but I started using methanol/water mix today. Half and half mix. Methanol was obtained through HEET anti fuel freeze additive (99,9% methanol), didn't want to buy a big container tell I knew I whether or not I would like it. I must say from time to time I experienced some uneven idling with just straight water. Enough to where if I went across town it would happen at least once. Nothing severe just noticable to me I guess. With this mix and a 100 miles today idle has completely smooth out, seems to have a little more power too. I guess only time will tell.

[Tremorfalcon]

I think methanol would be great to add to the water. I'd suggest windshield washer fluid which is around 70% water, and 30% methanol. It won't freeze in the winter and I'm not positive but I think it would also increase hydrogen production since the chemical equation for methanol is CH3OH. Water/methanol injection can greatly increase power in turbo engines and slightly increase power in NA engines. Its only around $1.15 a gallon, and since it'd be a good antifreeze in winter with a chance of increasing hydrogen production, I'd say we should start trying it more. I plan to once I get my generator built.

[donnylynn]

Does windshield washer fluid use distilled water? or tap water?

[Tremorfalcon]

Considering it goes on your windshield and you wouldn't want water spots when it dries, and if it was from a professional company I'd assume they'd only use purified water without minerals and such in it. I'd have to say that it is distilled water. Not 100%, but I'm pretty sure.

[snapper1d]

I really dont see where it would hurt much to try it also.The only problem I see is the evaproation of it so quickly with the heat and vaccum on a generator.Methanol is not near as explosive as hho.

[Stevo]

I am bringing this back from the past (maybe dead) because I think I have certainly overlooked this. Seeing as how pure methanol electrolysis can occur at such a low voltage as .02v and taking into consideration these facts:


Methanol is less explosive than HHO or gasoline
We already have to filter out KOH in the water vapor
Methanol is easy to attain.


Methanol sounds scary, but so does KOH which can burn your skin very badly. Why not experiment by starting from a 90/10 water/methanol mixture and moving up?

[Boltazar]

Windshield washer fluid has been suggested to be used in dry cells as antifreeze. Dry cells would seem safer then exposed plate cells.

[Cadillac]

I do mine 66% methanol and 33% water. I got my methanol from "Heet anti fuel line freeze." It cost about a $1.5 for a couple ounce bottle and is 99.9% straight methanol. You can get way bigger containers ranging from 5-20 gallons but if you want to just experiment it is probably better to get the Heet.

It least the way it sounds to me from what information I have found so far methanol at the 2/3 ratio is favorable because of the by-products (co2 & 3h2). Other ratios and variable alcohol types yield more steam and alcohol vapors instead of what you want.

[Boltazar]

Cadillac what type of cell do you run

[Stevo]

Some good methanol safety info from a distributor in Dallas, TX:

http://biodieselmethanol.org/methanol.htm

Extra useful information:

http://biodieselmethanol.org/methanol_uses.htm

[Stevo]

This article explains the details of what i would like to be my next project. Anyone else interested?

http://www.techbriefs.com/content/view/1828/34/

[Painless]

Definitely interested.

I just scanned that article as I'm at work at the moment, but will give it a deeper read later on when I have the time.

I'm wondering about the reduced power in consumption of electricity compared to the reduced power from the pure hydrogen, due to the lack of oxygen in the ideal 2:1 proportion. Although, the hydrogen entering the intake would be mixed with air and should, therefore, obtain any needed oxygen there.

Interesting stuff.