How Do I Separate Hydrogen from Oxygen?

[volomike]

Now that many of us are producing ignitable HHO, I thought it might be worth our while to figure out how to separate the Hydrogen from the Oxygen, and then feed in just a dim amount of Oxygen back into the mix. This produces HHO again, but a far more powerful HHO. Comprende?

Anyone got an idea on how to do this efficiently, cheaply, and as safe as possible? Sure, nothing is ever safe, but as safe as we can be here.

For instance, and I'm going out on a limb here with probably the wrong assumption, but if you use a reverse osmosis filter membrane in the top of a box, and you shoot HHO into it at the bottom, I'm guessing here that perhaps the hydrogen will force its way through the filter into the top of the box, while the oxygen would be held back somewhat. And why? Well, hydrogen wants to shoot upwards, but oxygen is heavier. Sure, some oxygen might bleed through the membrane, but hydrogen will force its way through much harder. So, this might, and again I'm going out on a limb here, produce a richer HHO above the Dupont reverse osmosis membrane, often called an RO membrane. If this is true, then perhaps this is viable because these membranes are not that expensive.

[EDIT: After doing some research, I found I'm not too far off my rocker here with RO membranes. RO membranes fall under the category of "polymeric membranes" and this European Union paper, published by researchers in the Netherlands, (http://www.ecn.nl/docs/library/report/2004/c04102.pdf) reflects on how effective they are. In the end, they said that polymeric membranes will work, but they suffer from swelling (and bursting) under extreme pressure, and that the hydrogen separation worked but was somewhat weak. The paper said that ceramic membranes were the best filters of hydrogen out of HHO gas.]

[Q-Hack!]

Back in the first half of the 20th century, they were using an asbestos membrane. Not sure you will be able to find one today though. Whatever you use would have to be transparent to electricity yet not allow the hydrogen to pass through.

[Smith03Jetta]

I think that Oxygen/Hydrogen separation is so difficult that no one on this forum is willing to try it. I'm working on some ideas right now but I have not made any breakthroughs. I would like to build a hydrogen/oxygen separator cell that would double as a recombination fuel cell for creating electricity.

Here's my idea.

Build a system that would use solar power to separate water into Hydrogen and Oxygen (In different tanks). Put the separate gas cylinders in a motor vehicle. Recombine the Hydrogen/Oxygen in a fuel cell to produce electricity to power the vehicle.

I've been thinking about converting an old motorcycle to electric. The main problem is the amount of time the battery array will run on a charge. Using lead acid batteries I can build a powerful motorcycle that will run for 25 minutes at highway speeds. Top Speed of around 100 mph. Using Lithium batteries I can power one for 50 minutes to an hour. I want to get around the battery "Glass Ceiling". One solution would be Hydrogen Fuel Cell.

[Roland Jacques]

I dont see a point in seperatng the gases when being used in engines.

It not hard to do but efficeincy is not very good.

[volomike]

I dont see a point in seperatng the gases when being used in engines.

It not hard to do but efficeincy is not very good.

Yeah, that's another factor. I mean, if hydrogen is held back because it has to bleed through a filter, then that's a huge explosion risk if not managed properly.

Maybe this isn't even worth trying. I mean, after all, I'm getting good results so far.

[hydrotinkerer]

Just think, No oxygen, No map, No maf, No efie. I'm just guessing.

[Roland Jacques]

Just think, No oxygen, No map, No maf, No efie. I'm just guessing.


Yeah, I can see were this sounds plausible, but all evidence ive seen shows this NOT to be the case.

I’m not sure of the details why the O2 sensor senses extra O2, but it seems safe to say that it is not the less than 000.2% of O2 (compared to total air volume) that we are putting in the intake.

Their is a Video with a guy pumping around 4 LPM of straight O2 into the exhaust it did not change the O2 sensor reading. It took more O2 than that to get it the O2 sensor to react. (I wish he would have put the O2 into the intake, and tested the sensor that way)

[hydrotinkerer]

If the o2 was not as hot as the surrounding exhaust I would think the o2 sensor won't read it. Most o2 sensors don't even start reading/working until they reach a certain temp. That being said if the injected o2 was cool(out of a container) it won't recognize it was even there. Some manufacturer put aux. air pumps on the exhaust for emissions. Watching a monitor/scanner when that pump is on it makes definite changes to AFR. That pump is just pumping more air into the system.

[Smith03Jetta]

INCREASE in O2 results in lower O2 Sensor Voltage
INCREASE in O2 does not result in lower O2 Sensor Voltage when the O2 Sensor is not hot enough.

An O2 sensor doesn't even work until it heats up. The voltmeter on that Youtube video was stuck at the max value, 9.x volts. That means that the O2 Sensor was not hot enough to be working.

If he had revved up his engine to 3000 rpm in the test I would believe him. Adding Oxygen to the O2 sensor when the sensor is not hot enough to work can't possibly make a difference. It needs to be at running volts. Somewhere around 3 volts.

Increase the exhaust temp until the Volts come down to around 3 volts. then introduce O2 and see what happens.

[Stevo]

Seems like the small amount of O2 that is being added is on the same scale as a cold air intake bolt on (or maybe even less). In this case, separating the Hydrogen from the O2 would be in vein.

[countryboy18]

can you just have the gas through a contanier of the chemical that takes away O2. the have the packets in beef jerky bags. if you get alot of the chemical it might that out all of the O2 that is being produced. also there is another chemical that was used is submarines that takes out CO2. there is also another one that navy seals used in there rebreathing dive suits. so they produce no bubbles. just throwing it out there.

[Smith03Jetta]

Re-breathers have two functioning parts. The first part is a chemical filter that absorbs the C02. The second part is a small oxygen tank that is regulated to add just a little bit of Oxygen back to the recirculating air so as to maintain a certain oxygen level for breathing.

The problem with re-breathers is that the CO2 filter has a certain lifespan. The Oxygen tank also has a lifespan. After that you are not going to last very long without surfacing for air.

[countryboy18]

but does the idea of using a filter have any posibality of working.

[Smith03Jetta]

The problem with a filter is that the chemical filter will wear out quickly. Once all the material in the filter oxidizes it quits working. The cost of replacing filters and throwing them in the landfill or re-conditioning them would cost more than buying gasoline.

We need something like a catalytic converter or a true fuel cell. Possibly we could introduce something into the HHO stream that would combine with the Oxygen to form a harmless chemical.

Let's try Hydrogen. There's plenty of Hydrogen! Hydrogen when mixed with Oxygen at high temperatures produces a relatively harmless chemical called Di hydrogen Monoxide.

The problem with this perfect filtration of Oxygen is that it uses up all the hydrogen too. Maybe it's not a problem after all. Energy is released during the H2 + O = water reaction that can be converted into electricity. We can't of course use electricity to improve the efficiency of our internal combustion engines but we could use it to REPLACE them.

Please pardon the ramblings.

I've had some success with HHO so far but I'm not the kind of person who puts band-aids on problems. I like to find permanent solutions. If the Gasoline engine has an efficiency limit that we can not overcome, then I say that Gasoline is the problem.

[dennis13030]

Now that many of us are producing ignitable HHO, I thought it might be worth our while to figure out how to separate the Hydrogen from the Oxygen, and then feed in just a dim amount of Oxygen back into the mix. This produces HHO again, but a far more powerful HHO. Comprende?

Anyone got an idea on how to do this efficiently, cheaply, and as safe as possible? Sure, nothing is ever safe, but as safe as we can be here.

For instance, and I'm going out on a limb here with probably the wrong assumption, but if you use a reverse osmosis filter membrane in the top of a box, and you shoot HHO into it at the bottom, I'm guessing here that perhaps the hydrogen will force its way through the filter into the top of the box, while the oxygen would be held back somewhat. And why? Well, hydrogen wants to shoot upwards, but oxygen is heavier. Sure, some oxygen might bleed through the membrane, but hydrogen will force its way through much harder. So, this might, and again I'm going out on a limb here, produce a richer HHO above the Dupont reverse osmosis membrane, often called an RO membrane. If this is true, then perhaps this is viable because these membranes are not that expensive.

[EDIT: After doing some research, I found I'm not too far off my rocker here with RO membranes. RO membranes fall under the category of "polymeric membranes" and this European Union paper, published by researchers in the Netherlands, (http://www.ecn.nl/docs/library/report/2004/c04102.pdf) reflects on how effective they are. In the end, they said that polymeric membranes will work, but they suffer from swelling (and bursting) under extreme pressure, and that the hydrogen separation worked but was somewhat weak. The paper said that ceramic membranes were the best filters of hydrogen out of HHO gas.]

See the image below. Its cheap like HHO. This shows the basic idea. However, if you only use the Oxygen part, you need to safely dispose of the Hydrogen part.

[Painless]

I thought it might be worth our while to figure out how to separate the Hydrogen from the Oxygen

Here's a hypothetical idea:

We know that the hydrogen is attracted to the negative electrode and the oxygen to the positive. Therefore, after the traditional HHO generation process, perhaps we can use this in some way out of the electrolyte bath to guide the H2 and O2 to separate venting tubes? What would happen if a positive terminal were placed in one vent exit and a negative in another? Would the attraction work outside of electrolyte or does it need to occur within a conductive medium? Perhaps a modified bubbler could be used to achieve this?

[hydrotinkerer]

Someone was talking on another forum, He said his company serviced/operated very large boilers. They dispersed o2 out of boiler systems to prevent rust. Sodium sulfate was added to the water to absorb o2. I don't know the particulars but might have merit. Someone with chemical background might know.

[kerry k]

Someone was talking on another forum, He said his company serviced/operated very large boilers. They dispersed o2 out of boiler systems to prevent rust. Sodium sulfate was added to the water to absorb o2. I don't know the particulars but might have merit. Someone with chemical background might know.
That was me on Ionizationx. See link:

http://http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,569.0.html

That experiment is delayed because the O2 cell in the gas analyzer is bad. I ordered a new one and they said 7-10 day delivery so it should be here next week. I will share my results as soon as I can

[Haywire Haywood]

veddy interesting...

[countryboy18]

See the image below. Its cheap like HHO. This shows the basic idea. However, if you only use the Oxygen part, you need to safely dispose of the Hydrogen part.

if you use this cell you have to have alot of electrolyte so that the current can pass from + to the -. i had one in chenistry class it took forever to have alot of H and O. it had a very weak solution.

[Smith03Jetta]

I've been playing around with some different materials that will allow current to pass through but not gas bubbles. I have not yet identified a cheap and readily available material. Another challenge is trying to find a suitable separator material that will not turn into a gas producing surface.

I'm currently focusing on Cellophane, Polymers, Mesh Screens and others.

Simple Saran Wrap allowed electrical current to pass through for a short time but eventually stopped transmitting current. I'm pretty sure it was because of a buildup of gasses on the surface of the cellophane.

I'm trying to design a dry cell with two plates. The Dry Cell will have two chambers separated by a conductive membrane. The membrane will separate the negative and positive plates but allow the large plate surfaces to be very close together.

[Q-Hack!]

I wonder how a plain sheet of printer paper might work? Yes, it gets week when its wet, but you wont be moving it very much inside the electrolizer. You couldn't use NaOH with it as it would eat the paper, but maybe lemon juice or something as an electrolyte?

[sp1r0]

If you go the way of tubes, mcmaster-carr has graphite tubes from .0625 down to .02" thicknesses. Graphite plates 1/8" thick. Too thick?

[JojoJaro]

Refresh my memory, Why do we want to separate H2 from o2 again? Is it because we want to store H2?

If so, what is the best way to do it? Pump, tanks and circuitry recommendations. And how do you meter it back out so that you can feed it to your engine?


I am thinking of a design that can do this, using easily available PVC pipe fittings and stainless steel rods. The cost is not much more than other designs, but I don't understand the rationale for doing so.

[Haywire Haywood]

I think I read at HHO-info that if you add pure H to your car instead of the H and O that you might not have to cheat your O sensors and can just run it without any computer mods.

Easy test for this theory. Acquire a small cylinder of Hydrogen, adjust the valve so that it puts out 2/3 LPM (the amount of H you would get from a 1LPM generator), hook it up and go for a drive with one of those car computers attached. See if you get a CEL and watch the computer to see if your fuel system goes into default mode where it starts dumping more gas in.

Ian

[countryboy18]

sounds like a good idea.:)

[bigapple]

I think I read at HHO-info that if you add pure H to your car instead of the H and O that you might not have to cheat your O sensors and can just run it without any computer mods.

Easy test for this theory. Acquire a small cylinder of Hydrogen, adjust the valve so that it puts out 2/3 LPM (the amount of H you would get from a 1LPM generator), hook it up and go for a drive with one of those car computers attached. See if you get a CED and watch the computer to see if your fuel system goes into default mode where it starts dumping more gas in.

Ian

so who wants to be the guinea pig? thats the real question

[Haywire Haywood]

The real question is where does one acquire a cylinder of hydrogen and how much does it cost.

Ian

[Smith03Jetta]

I'm going beyond the idea of adding HHO to an engine to boost fuel economy. I'm attempting to create Hydrogen gas and Oxygen gas separately for storage. I finally discovered a bi-polar Ion Exchange Membrane that I'm trying to get my hands on. This membrane will allow the transfer of Ions (Electrically charged particles) between electrodes in a water bath but it blocks gas bubbles. The membrane does not make any bubbles on it's own.

The idea is to physically separate the pos and neg plates so you can isolate the hydrogen from the oxygen. Some people are doing this by moving the electrodes far apart from each other and putting them in separate {UP} tubes. That works but seriously diminishes the gas output because of the "Plate Gap". We know that a close plate gap is better.

Some people have suggested putting a Stainless steel water separator between the plates but all that would do is create oxygen bubbles in the hydrogen side and hydrogen bubbles on the oxygen side of the cell. The material used for separating the two halves of the cell will need to conduct electricity but not produce bubbles of any kind. The only thing that i've found so far is an Ion Exchange membrane.

There are three kinds. Cation Exchange Membrane, Anion Exchange Membrane and Bi-Polar Exchange Membrane.

I'm wanting to build a "Dry Cell" with a gas outlet on both sides of the membrane. Two plates very close together with a single membrane between the two. This cell will need to be a flooded design using a bubbler as a fluid reservoir.

This type of Dry Cell can be built in series to lower the overall voltage while increasing output.

My first reason for wanting to create this type of cell is not to augment my car's gasoline consumption. I am working on a design for an electric motorcycle that is powered not by batteries but by the electricity created by recombining hydrogen and oxygen in a fuel cell. The only thing I'm not sure about is how much volume of gas/liquid hydrogen/oxygen I'll need to save on-board to ride any serious distance.

If I store the hydrogen/oxygen in gas form I will have storage space issues. If I can store in liquid form I can definitely ride longer distances.

Second reason for experimenting is to possibly take my home off the grid. Solar energy can be used to separate the hydrogen/oxygen for storage. It can be recombined at night for electricity production.

I'm not knocking the benefits of HHO but I think I've reached the limits of how much benefit I can get from HHO in my modern fuel injected ECU controlled engines.

[gizzy]

This sounds like the perfect world. No co2 emmisions. No more acid rain and so on.... If I'm not mistaken, it takes o2 to make and create combustion. So we should know how amazingly explosive hho is. But my thought is...In a tank or container tightly sealed were there is no o2 confined, it won't explode when a spark is introduced it, will not explode internally only when re-leasted into an o2 atmoshere.

[JojoJaro]

This sounds like the perfect world. No co2 emmisions. No more acid rain and so on.... If I'm not mistaken, it takes o2 to make and create combustion. So we should know how amazingly explosive hho is. But my thought is...In a tank or container tightly sealed were there is no o2 confined, it won't explode when a spark is introduced it, will not explode internally only when re-leasted into an o2 atmoshere.

According to the PDF, Hydrogen concentrations below 4% and higher than 75% relative to o2, will not ignite. If you can store H2 at concentrations above 75%, it will not explode inside the tank no matter what sparks you may have inside it.

[gizzy]

I understand. Thanks. So basically if you had hho in one container and o2 in the other and then control the release combined mixture. Sorry I got lost for words.

[JojoJaro]

I understand. Thanks. So basically if you had hho in one container and o2 in the other and then control the release combined mixture. Sorry I got lost for words.

No, you have H2 (not HHO) in one container and release it. The o2 in the air will be sufficient to explode the H2 you release. You do not have to carry o2, there's enough in the air.

[gizzy]

Thanks. That was my thoughts...

[Smith03Jetta]

The reason why I want to store O2 is because the higher concentration of O2 present in the Fuel Cell (Electricity making cell) the more electricity is created. Ambient air will make electricity with hydrogen in a fuel cell but pure oxygen and hydrogen mixed in a fuel cell will be awesome.

[countryboy18]

i think i got it. i did a test today using H2O and very little 34% HCL. when i turned on the power to my cell there was no production of O oxygen on the + terminal. there was only production on the - terminal. the only down side of this reaction is you are making CL "chlorine" in the water. your normal tap water will turn into chlorine after some time. but it pulls 12 amps with just 2 tablespoons of HCL in 1 gal of water. i will do some lpm tests to find out how much HHO or maybe just H i am producing. if i am wrong i will gladly take off this post but if i am right hopefully i wont die to soon before i can see my car run really good. thanks.

[Smith03Jetta]

When you mix hydrochloric acid HCL with water you get chlorine and hydroxonium or oxonium cations. Those cations are made up of 3 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen. These cations are positively charged and will be attracted to the negative electrode (Normally the Hydrogen Electrode) only.

Electrolysis of these ions can possibly release a hydrogen atom and leave a water molecule remaining. The other possibility is that a hydrogen is released followed by a splitting of the H2O molecule. That would result in twice the volume of Hydrogen gas being released and an negatively charged oxygen ion being released into the water. That negatively charged oxygen ion would then be attracted to another positively charged Oxonium Cation. When combined that could make Hydrogen Dihydroxide Ion H3O2.

This new negatively charged ion is a 3 dimensional ion that uses proton exchange to stay together. This proton exchange produces a harmonic vibration. This also produces heat during the proton exchange.

What all this means to me is "The cell will be getting hot pretty fast". It will make a bunch of hydrogen though.

The bad thing is that it will produce a LARGE volume of Chlorine gas. It is toxic and can't be separated from the Hydrogen gas inside the electrolyzer. This chlorine gas will be pumped into your engine.

What you are basically doing is going the long way around to make Hydrogen Gas and Chlorine gas from Hydrochloric Acid. The atomic mass of the H20 is pretty much left alone.

It would be very easy for the raw HCL to get into your engine causing metal damage. Also the Chlorine gas could recombine with the Hydrogen gas to make Pure HCL inside your engine. HCL is also commonly known as Muriatic Acid.

It's sort of like Altoids Mints. It is a curiously strong acid.

One of the cardinal rules of HHO is to avoid anything containing Chlorine Atoms. For good reason!

[Smith03Jetta]

I have been emailing a manufacturer in Germany. He is suggesting some membrane material that will hold up to the alkaline and high temperature environment in a cell. As soon as I get some of this material in-hand I will build a cell that will allow separation of Hydrogen from Oxygen.

Again, I'm entertaining the idea of using a Pelican case for this experiment. I am proposing cutting out a diaphragm that is the same diameter as the outside rim of the seal on the Pelican case. I will then get a thin but sturdy plastic and make a frame for the diaphragm. I may put some framework on the frame to help make the diaphragm more sturdy. I can then sandwich the thin diaphragm frame in between the lid gasket of the Pelican case. Shut the case lid and you've got yourself a watertight diaphragm. Since a larger volume of Hydrogen is produced it is a good idea to put the negative electrode on the larger of the two cavities now created by the diaphragm.

I will draw up a design for the diaphragm frame for everybody to see. In the meantime please look at these photos of how well a pelican case held up in a pretty bad fire. The guy who owned this particular Pelican case had a fire in his shop that totally destroyed his Lathe and most of the stuff in the general area. I'm guessing we don't have to worry about high temperatures any more.

[Smith03Jetta]

Pelican just came out with a new style case. It is a low profile case that's just the right size for two plates separated by a diaphragm. Take a look-see at the case and the plate drawing that I'm proposing to use to separate Hydrogen from Oxygen.

This unit will not be used in a car. It will be hooked up to a solar array and be used to create Hydrogen and Oxygen separately for storage in tanks for future use.

After the successful storage of the two gases I will build or purchase a fuel cell to create electricity.

[Smith03Jetta]

Ok, I've got a question for you engineers out there. If I build a cell that produces Hydrogen on one side and Oxygen on the other, I will have to control the pressure on both sides to keep the diaphragm from being damaged by the pressure/vacuum created by the pumps used to pressurize the gas into my cylinders.

My ideas call for both sides of my Electrolyzer to have pressure valves installed that will maintain a constant pressure in both sides of the cell. Past the pressure valves the individual gases will go out to a collection cylinder with a pressure switch set to some specific pressure, always lower than the pressure of the electrolyzer. When the pressure reaches the required amount a pump will turn on. The pump will move the gases out of the collection cylinder into the storage tanks. The pump will turn off when the pressure reaches a pre-determined minimum pressure. The idea is to maintain a constant positive pressure in the electrolyzer cell but to only turn on the pumps when the gas pressure in my output lines reaches a specified point.

It's my idea that this kind of cell design will allow for collection and storage of hydrogen and oxygen without damaging the internal membrane that separates the two gases during the electrolysis process.

Now I'm asking for some input from you guys. What internal pressure in the cell would be high enough so that a small electric pump would be able to operate at a lower pressure range. I've seen one setup at 30 psi.

[Smith03Jetta]

If you aren't intending to store each gas separately you can just put a diaphragm membrane on each side to separate the gasses. I'll provide more information on the membrane material as soon as my German friend and I work out some details.

[RMForbes]

While I am curious about your experiment, I am also frightened by the risk you are taking. Most of the designs that I have seen recommend a 5 psi cutoff switch so that the pressures do not build up in the electrolysis unit. I believe that the added oxygen has no effect on the remaining O2 at end of combustion. Air contains between 18% to 21% O2 depending on altitude and the additional O2 from your HHO unit will not increase that significantly. However, the hydrogen speeds up the combustion so the fuel is consumed before the end of combustion and the exhaust is cooler and more O2 rich. I don't believe that removing O2 will effect this at all. But I do not want to discourge anyone from experimenting. Just please be safe.

[h2gen]

Now that many of us are producing ignitable HHO, I thought it might be worth our while to figure out how to separate the Hydrogen from the Oxygen, and then feed in just a dim amount of Oxygen back into the mix. This produces HHO again, but a far more powerful HHO. Comprende?

Anyone got an idea on how to do this efficiently, cheaply, and as safe as possible? Sure, nothing is ever safe, but as safe as we can be here.

For instance, and I'm going out on a limb here with probably the wrong assumption, but if you use a reverse osmosis filter membrane in the top of a box, and you shoot HHO into it at the bottom, I'm guessing here that perhaps the hydrogen will force its way through the filter into the top of the box, while the oxygen would be held back somewhat. And why? Well, hydrogen wants to shoot upwards, but oxygen is heavier. Sure, some oxygen might bleed through the membrane, but hydrogen will force its way through much harder. So, this might, and again I'm going out on a limb here, produce a richer HHO above the Dupont reverse osmosis membrane, often called an RO membrane. If this is true, then perhaps this is viable because these membranes are not that expensive.

[EDIT: After doing some research, I found I'm not too far off my rocker here with RO membranes. RO membranes fall under the category of "polymeric membranes" and this European Union paper, published by researchers in the Netherlands, (http://www.ecn.nl/docs/library/report/2004/c04102.pdf) reflects on how effective they are. In the end, they said that polymeric membranes will work, but they suffer from swelling (and bursting) under extreme pressure, and that the hydrogen separation worked but was somewhat weak. The paper said that ceramic membranes were the best filters of hydrogen out of HHO gas.]

You may be interested in this link:
http://peoplesnewenergy.com/home

[Drafty-01]

I wonder how a plain sheet of printer paper might work? Yes, it gets week when its wet, but you wont be moving it very much inside the electrolizer. You couldn't use NaOH with it as it would eat the paper, but maybe lemon juice or something as an electrolyte?

There is a fabric that could be used to keep hydrogen & oxygen bubbles separate, or rather to prevent them from mixing as they're made on opposite sides of the space between two plates in a dry cell, but that will not break down in KOH (even at elevated temperatures) and will probably allow fluid flow to a small extent, and therefore current flow as the fluid can permeate the fabric - I'm not too sure about how permeable this fabric is to KOH, not having experimented on it, but it is a woven type fabric, so would probably work.
this fabric is goretex, which is a Teflon fabric made by DuPont. It 's probably not too difficult to obtain (buy an old goretex raincoat for example).
The dry cell would need to be designed so that there are separate vents for each of the two gases, not unlike an AlfaLaval plate heat exchanger in principle.

Just food for thought...

After a little more research found this link; http://www.youtube.com/user/myhydrogencar#p/u/16/V07eSsMslL0 . this design uses silk as a membrane - not sure how it would stand up to NaOH or KOH though.

[BioFarmer93]

Drafty...
I guess you might not have noticed, but it has been nearly 2-1/2 years since this thread had any activity before your response. I hope they still check in from time to time, because the goretex sounds like a good idea. I was going to use a double layer of heavy tightly woven dacron myself.

[myoldyourgold]

The gortex membrane might be of use but because it uses a chemical bond, it might not stand up to the base and continued heating and cooling (on and off) of the reactor. Rip stock(nylon) that has been treated to make it water proof has the same problem. The teflon itself is not the problem. I would like to know if anyone has tried it? Not cheap though. I researched it a few years ago and without going back and looking at my notes I passed it by for some reason so have not tried it myself. Maybe I missed something. The fact is, if H20 can get through then the gases can too unless the fiber can soak up the water and not really pass it through. This would not be possible with a teflon coating though. There are similar products out there since the patent has expired and could be worth a second look.

[Zeran33]

three chamber separator tow chemically treated membranes one that allows the hydrogen to bas through the heavier gas sinks to bottom of chamber. The lighter gas oxygen ascends to top of chamber through it's membrane. or use a wet cell double chamber production system that produces each gas separately.

the negative side produces one gas the positive side produces other you can do it in a dry cell that has only three plates the center is solid stainless both sides have a hole at top and bottom making hydrogen on one sie oxygen on other but this yields low production even when you add a electromagnetic field to up production and add a resonance sound generator using a modern forlecent curlily cue light bulb and and ear but head phones you need to coil four inches on to get the resonator to work and it burns out quickly need the proper risister for long time use. you coil wire 3/4 way up on the dry cell one direction and reverse the wire in opposite direction to create magnetic field. leave the center absent for the electromagnetic coil.

I have not been able to test resonator or the electromagnet coil much to up production but thought i put this info out their just wanted to explain the separation of the two gases. through either the membrane system or simply producing separately.

To produce in a wet cell i included a document.

[myoldyourgold]

you can do it in a dry cell that has only three plates the center is solid stainless both sides have a hole at top and bottom making hydrogen on one sie oxygen

This is impossible. The center plate becomes a bipolar plate and produces gas on both sides.

[elwood]

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=electrolysis%20of%20water&sm=1 (my phone wont let me put it at the end)

At the risk of resurrecting a dead thread everyone may have given up on id like to point out that electrolysis of water was originally used to seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen and proved the stoichiometry of water being 2 parts hydrogen to 1 part oxygen. it seems to me that improving on that design rather than reinventing the wheel? (Or the hydrogen bonb in this case) ill attach a youtube video to demonstrate.

http://youtu.be/OTEX38bQ-2w
.

[wangsamax]

Please watch this video.
I successfully separate hydrogen from oxygen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2zA4rTTDOw