Oxidation in the carb and engine caused by the Oxygen in HHO

[ElectricSquid]

As I experiment further with HHO, I'm comming up with a few questions that I cant find answers for. This is one of those questions...

Oxygen causes oxidation, we all know that. So what happens when you dump raw oxygen into the carburetor?

I'd like to hear from some of you that use HHO assist units on carburated engines, that have used the system for a while now, and have disassembled your carb, intake, or heads recently.

Basically, I'm trying to find the answer for what is the effect of Oxygen in the HHO gas on internal engine parts after long periods of time?

... and since we're at it, what are the effects of the different electrolytes too?

[Painless]

Oxygen causes oxidation, we all know that. So what happens when you dump raw oxygen into the carburetor?

If you were simply to dump raw oxygen into your carburettor, without any change in the fuel amount, the extra lean mixture would significantly raise the combustion chamber temperature, resulting in engine damage in the long term.


I'd like to hear from some of you that use HHO assist units on carburated engines, that have used the system for a while now, and have disassembled your carb, intake, or heads recently.

My vehicle is fuel injected, however, one of the effects of utilizing HHO is that combustion temperature is reduced. In addition to this, most people lean out their engine to take advantage of less fuel needed per power-stroke (due to HHO increasing the amount of gasoline which gets burnt in the cylinder) without the accompanied rise in combustion temp. The trick here is to utilize monitoring as you make changes, a regular check of your spark plugs will give an early warning of running too lean, even better, a device to monitor your EGT (exhaust gas temp) is invaluable.


Basically, I'm trying to find the answer for what is the effect of Oxygen in the HHO gas on internal engine parts after long periods of time?

As stated above, too much oxygen equals a lean mixture, too lean a mixture equals engine damage (melted / cracked valves, holes in the piston head, cylinder wall damage).

To overstress the point, and I'm sure some of the more experienced auto mechanics here can enlighten you further, introduction of HHO accompanied by fuel leaning needs to be a closely monitored process.


... and since we're at it, what are the effects of the different electrolytes too?

As concerns the different electrolyte mixtures ( different catalyst use ), this document on the wiki should prove informative:

http://www.hhoknowhow.info/wiki/design:electrolyte_catalyst

[ElectricSquid]

Thanks, that was all good info and answers a few of the questions that I haven't gotten to yet, but it doesn't address the issue I was trying to get at with this topic. I'm trying to obtain information on oxidation and other chemical reactions that happen to the internal engine parts due to the HHO, especially the oxygen.

Everyone uses 316 Stainless Steel for their electrodes because if you use anything else, they will corrode quickly. But our engines are not made of stainless steel (as far as I know), so I suspect that there would be some kind of corrosion from the oxygen.

Also, my edelbrock carborators housing is aluminum. The fuel metering rods are brass (I think).

I need info on what kind of chemical reactions I should expect from the HHO on these parts.





As concerns the different electrolyte mixtures ( different catalyst use ), this document on the wiki should prove informative:

http://www.hhoknowhow.info/wiki/design:electrolyte_catalyst

Cool, I like the fact that you added the "why" for why not to use salt or baking soda due to the chlorine gas effect.

Further down the page I did find myself asking a different why. You say:

...and then add the KOH to the water. DO NOT do this the other way around and add the water to the KOH!

Why not? What will happen?

[smartHHO]

Ok, I don't own a carb engine here in Texas, but I am going to talk about what we know so far.

Putting your electrolite as far as we can see does not evaporate with the HHO so it does not go into the engine and start eating your engine up. As for oxidation, you live in Florida and the humidity in the air is going to cause natural oxidation faster then you will get from an HHO unit installed in your car or truck. I work with machines that make oxidation at low vac to make semiconductor chips and right now, living where you live. You get better oxidation then someone say in the Mojave Desert. You have humidity, and constant heat. Don't need vac to make it work. So, if you get any oxidation in your engine, it is from being too humid and going thru your air cleaner. Just a thought on Oxidation. Hope that answers your question.

On the brass and aluminum, I would say you should be ok if you don't run baking soda. Baking soda is one of the few that might actually go into your engine where at the other electrolytes most likely won't. One reason people use them more. You get your right amount and then you just have to add your water.

Good luck on your decision.

[ElectricSquid]

You have humidity, and constant heat. Don't need vac to make it work. So, if you get any oxidation in your engine, it is from being too humid and going thru your air cleaner.

... and add salt water mist comming in from the Gulf of Mexico and Tampa Bay. I live less than a mile from the water.

Unlike up north, vehicles down here rust from the top down due to a few factors. The sun, and the early morning dew (which carries slight amounts of seasalt with it).


Hope that answers your question...

Yes, but I am always looking for new info, so if anyone would like to add to that, that would be great http://wherethetrailends.com/Smileys/classic/agree.gif


...electrolytes... ...Good luck on your decision.

The more I learn, the more I'm leaning toward KOH, though I have read suggestion of using a second bubbler to "clean" the HHO since there have been reports of the KOH showing signs of traveling further through the system than previously expected.

I no longer have the link supporting that claim. I've read through too many pages on HHO systems to be able to find that link in my browser history now.

[Painless]

Further down the page I did find myself asking a different why. You say:


Why not? What will happen?

Basically, you do not want the KOH reacting with small amounts of water. The result will be a lot of heat. Take a plastic bottle and rinse it out so there is just trace drips of water in it, then tip in a spoonful of KOH. DO NOT touch the bottle itself, the KOH will heat up and melt through.

On the other side, I've put my hands into a 2 gallons of distilled water and 2 teaspoons of KOH mix and not felt any ill effects other than dry skin.

Just a safety thing.

[Stevo]

Ok, I don't own a carb engine here in Texas, but I am going to talk about what we know so far.

Putting your electrolite as far as we can see does not evaporate with the HHO so it does not go into the engine ...

GO TEXAS!! Yes you are right about NaOH not evaporating off into the gas so long as the overall temperature is <= 216 deg F (as this is the boiling point for NaOH). If you keep your water cooled to about 150 deg F, then you should be safe so long as you are not ingesting water steam or moisture via the bubbler or other means. Guess this would mean installing a dryer inline.

[ElectricSquid]

Basically, you do not want the KOH reacting with small amounts of water. The result will be a lot of heat. Take a plastic bottle and rinse it out so there is just trace drips of water in it, then tip in a spoonful of KOH. DO NOT touch the bottle itself, the KOH will heat up and melt through.

On the other side, I've put my hands into a 2 gallons of distilled water and 2 teaspoons of KOH mix and not felt any ill effects other than dry skin.

Just a safety thing.

Cool, very good info to know!
Thanks

[Genchaos]

Don't forget that your engine will not run without oxygen, it is a necessary part of the combustion process. If you are pumping 1.5 liters per minute of HHO into your engine then only 1/3 of that is oxygen. Every revolution of your engine is drawing in fuel and air. Mine is a 2.8l V6 and I would guess that every cycle it consumes about 2 liters of air. The miniscule amount of HHO your adding should play very little of a role in added oxydation.

[HHOhoper]

As far as the oxidation is concerned, I had the same concern. After a lot of reading and research, I'm fairly confident that a simple booster doesn't produce enough gas to cause any damage to an engine. Partly because it's just not producing enough to hurt much and two, because normal gasoline contains detergents that actually help prevent damage to engine components. Otherwise, stock exhaust systems would turn to dust a lot faster than they already do.;) I read up on a guy who says that he's now made two vehicles that run completely on hydrogen (I'm not sure if I believe it or not, but I don't really care either way - he DID have a lot of information I found useful.). He said that he had to make the entire exhaust system out of stainless steel because everything else disintegrated.
With the research and experimenting I've done myself, I believe that KOH is the best way to go for so many reasons including risk to the engine.

[moore6649]

i use a fuel filter with a clear settling bowl just light on old carbs to ack as a final trap for any impuritys. any water can easily be dumped out and when its dirty the filter replaced