Plate Spacing Advice

[Farmercal]

I am about ready to build my (Smack's-like) booster. Looking at the smacks design using the stainless steel nuts, it appears like they only end up with three neutral plates by my understanding.

Wouldn't it be better to use nylon washers in place of the nuts to essentially give you more neutral plates and drop more voltage? From what I have read here, that is the key to less heat.

[godoveryou]

Two points you are missing I think.

First, the SS nuts are conductors. The Nylon washers are dielectric spacers. The SS nuts are required to conduct power from "Neutral" cell to cell.

Second, the smack design is massively inefficient as far as heat and wasted power. It has nothing to do with the number of neutral plates and everything to do with current leak. It's a single bath cell. It's intended to be a 7 or 8 "Cell" device, but since the electroylte is shared openly, current jumps the electrodes, and it's really a single cell device with multiple gas chambers.. The jumping electrodes heats the fluid and draws incredible power. It's a horrible design, I hate to see people build them unless they can do it for under $30.

GOY

[Farmercal]

Two points you are missing I think.

First, the SS nuts are conductors. The Nylon washers are dielectric spacers. The SS nuts are required to conduct power from "Neutral" cell to cell.

Second, the smack design is massively inefficient as far as heat and wasted power. It has nothing to do with the number of neutral plates and everything to do with current leak. It's a single bath cell. It's intended to be a 7 or 8 "Cell" device, but since the electroylte is shared openly, current jumps the electrodes, and it's really a single cell device with multiple gas chambers.. The jumping electrodes heats the fluid and draws incredible power. It's a horrible design, I hate to see people build them unless they can do it for under $30.

GOYThen everything I have been reading on this forum is wrong? I have read more than one time that the current will travel from one neutral plate through the other to reach the other side. As far as the the single bath cell, isn't that why you insulate the the cells? Doesn't that prevent the so-called current leak or current jumping? Perhaps I am not understanding what I have read and seen posted.

[justaguy]

The current does flow from n to n but I think the ss nuts are to give it a stronger current flow. The smack is basically two cells just configured different than two. I made mine two seperate cells configured each cell +-+- with two electrodes on each cell going out each side of the container. I have the option of hooking up in series or parelle. I hooked it up for the first time yesterday in series and it looked impressive. I have more testing to do before I install it to set the amps and heat to desired amount.

[overtaker]

The smacks design with 16 wall plates is suppose to be 2 cells wired in parallel with a voltage drop equaling 3v. per gap with just a 12v. batt. The voltage will only drop between unconnected plates. I think the reason for the connected plates in their design is to help prevent the current from jumping around the plates by making it a longer distance to travel. My guess is if you do prevent the current from taking an easier path around the plates ( by wrapping them or another method ) then you could and should eliminate some of the stainless nuts to create more voltage drops to get down to 1.5 to 2 volts. Godoveryou is exactly right about the current leaks within this kind of cell. Easy proof would be to just look at a neg. lead that isn't wrapped and look at the bubbles coming off. I hope this is of help and accurate but if not someone with a lot more experience hopefully will correct me.

[SamB52]

I gotta cast my vote with godover on this one, also all the members of the Energy Builders Network, Sid Young, teracell, MagDrive. There is huge leakage current around the edges of the plates in a smacker. My first 3 cells were Smack and they would boil water before they would put out the gas of a cell with insulated edges...One is still on a big diesel pusher rv and it starts out cool at 20A, puffs along a little stronger at 30A 15 minutes later, then, after a few miles on the interstate, I go back and find half of the electrolyte gone. I think it works like the old humidifier my Mom used to put at the bedside when I had a cold.
The engine liked it, but I think it was the effect of the steam on diesel combustion...better expansion, or something like that.
Sorry, Smack! You're a pioneer...but so was Edison, and he wouldn't buy into AC current. Tesla ran circles around him with power transmission lines in the end, when Edison had originally been Tesla's employer and mentor.

As usual, I humbly submit these ideas, because, like everybody else, I really don't know anything, I just look for the best theory...

[c02cutter]

I have a question on the diesel pusher. Is it running 12v, or 24v. I ask as I have a lot of experience with voltage systems on diesels. If you take a smack design and push 24v through it, it will do what you stated. At that point you have to modify the configuration in the cell to perform like a 12v environment. Basically doubling the (N's) to get a workable voltage environment. I may be dead wrong, but know that a lot of diesels run in a higher voltage environment. The smack from the get go was design for 12v. I can test this theory and will as I never thought about it as I have been playing in 12v. I have a friend that loves this stuuf I am working on that has all the equipment involved to make it go at any voltage.

[1973dodger]

[QUOTE=godoveryou;10083]Two points you are missing I think.

First, the SS nuts are conductors. The Nylon washers are dielectric spacers. The SS nuts are required to conduct power from "Neutral" cell to cell.

Second, the smack design is massively inefficient as far as heat and wasted power. It has nothing to do with the number of neutral plates and everything to do with current leak. It's a single bath cell. It's intended to be a 7 or 8 "Cell" device, but since the electroylte is shared openly, current jumps the electrodes, and it's really a single cell device with multiple gas chambers.. The jumping electrodes heats the fluid and draws incredible power. It's a horrible design, I hate to see people build them unless they can do it for under $30.

I noticed below your signature, you claim to have one of the world"s most efficient cells. What are your claims as far as efficiency goes and what is your special about your setup? Teach me, I'm all ears.

Now, if as your monikar states "Godoveryou", is referring to God is over all of us, then I'm with you. Now if you are claiming to be "God over us", then I have a problem with you. I could not really tell which way you meant this. Please clarify.

1973dodger

[1973dodger]

Godoveryou,


I noticed below your signature, you claim to have one of the world"s most efficient cells. What are your claims as far as efficiency goes and what is your special about your setup? Teach me, I'm all ears.

Now, if as your monikar states "Godoveryou", is referring to God is over all of us, then I'm with you. Now if you are claiming to be "God over us", then I have a problem with you. I could not really tell which way you meant this. Please clarify.

1973dodger

[EltonBrandd]

I gotta cast my vote with godover on this one, also all the members of the Energy Builders Network, Sid Young, teracell, MagDrive. There is huge leakage current around the edges of the plates in a smacker. My first 3 cells were Smack and they would boil water before they would put out the gas of a cell with insulated edges...One is still on a big diesel pusher rv and it starts out cool at 20A, puffs along a little stronger at 30A 15 minutes later, then, after a few miles on the interstate, I go back and find half of the electrolyte gone. I think it works like the old humidifier my Mom used to put at the bedside when I had a cold.
The engine liked it, but I think it was the effect of the steam on diesel combustion...better expansion, or something like that.
Sorry, Smack! You're a pioneer...but so was Edison, and he wouldn't buy into AC current. Tesla ran circles around him with power transmission lines in the end, when Edison had originally been Tesla's employer and mentor.

As usual, I humbly submit these ideas, because, like everybody else, I really don't know anything, I just look for the best theory...

You are experiencing thermal runaway. Your starting point of 20a indicates massive current leakage (wrap the plates) and/or too much koh. The plans call for starting at 15a and rising to 20a hot. My smack cell with 18 plates starts at 9a and rises to 16a and provides about 1lpm at peak current draw. If there were any other plans out there as easy and effective as this they would surely be worth trying.

[c02cutter]

freaking amazing i must say... we need a diesel mechanic here

[1973dodger]

Farmercal,

If you study the Smack's cell design, it is a form of a double series cell with 4 cells in series to each side. That is the reason the cells are connected by nuts. To use an example; (c - connected, uc - unconnected, + is positive, - is negative). The layout goes as this; c+,uc-,ss nut,uc-,un+,ss nut,uc+,uc-,ss nut, uc-, uc+, ss nut, uc+, uc-, ss nut, uc-, uc+, ss nut, uc +, uc-, ss nut, uc-, c+. This cell is a little bit of a hybrid, between a series cell and a cell using neutral plates, except to say, a neutral plate will have a pos. static charge on one side of the plate with a neg. static charge on the other side of the same plate. In a Smack's cell the plates are assigned only one charge, hence there is no reaction between the plates which have a ss nut between them.

As has been mentioned, any time you have a unconnected plate, the current would rather go around the unconnected plates and directly to the source, instead of having to go thru the unconnected plates. So there is usually a futile exercise of trying to wrap the plates, then submerge the cell in an open bath. Which means, if there is any edges which are not covered with wrap, you will have a current leakage of some sort. Smack's tries to combat this by putting a larger spacing between the cells, but there is without fail current leakage, but to somewhat of a lesser degree.

My thought is unconnected cells or uc. plates seldom work, so why not give the current what it really wants without any obstructions. Connect all plates and put your cells in a true series with each cell or set of cells in it's own seperate electrolitic bath. Are you confused yet? Hope this helps.

Bottom line is, if you only need 1 lpm and can handle 16 to 20 amps, then the smack's cell should work just fine for you. But it is true, if you plan on running your Smack's cell for more than an hour, it will overheat if you do not use an external cooling system.

1973dodger

[godoveryou]

1973dodger,

you ask me to teach you then mock me a sentence later. Did you really want me to reply to you with anything helpful? Did you respect me that little to assume I would be too stupid to see that? Go troll someplace else. 85 watts - 13LPM, if you can beat it, get a grant and make a billionaire of yourself. I beat Bob Boyce's 100LPM claim on a watt per liter ratio comparison.

Here is wikipedia's definition of troll dodger. ""An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion"
I don't take well to sarcasm, only discussion and you apparently have nothing to offer me there Dodger1973. Those are the last lines I will ever direct at you as I'm adding you to my ignore list.

GOY

[godoveryou]

CO, PM me with your deisel question, I've worked with several Duramax and VW TDI engines, and am familiar with common rail deisel. I didn't even read the rest of the thread after 1973's massive stupidity so I don't know what you asked.

GOY

[JojoJaro]

Just a suggestion, if you plan to build a smack booster, save yourself the trouble by simply buying the Mummy Cell kit from Eric (CO2cutter)

I am not affiliated with Eric, nor do I make any money from his sales, but it seems that he has already (or going to) assembled all the necessary parts and sourcing all these parts yourself just doesn't make sense. Moreover, I have a feeling his design will be more efficient compared to the Smack design, and made with better stainless steel.

Just a thought ....

[JojoJaro]

1973dodger,

you ask me to teach you then mock me a sentence later. Did you really want me to reply to you with anything helpful? Did you respect me that little to assume I would be too stupid to see that? Go troll someplace else. 85 watts - 13LPM, if you can beat it, get a grant and make a billionaire of yourself. I beat Bob Boyce's 100LPM claim on a watt per liter ratio comparison.


GOY, that is amazing efficiency. 153 mmw. This is way over the 6.183 mmw theoritical max efficiency that I thought was possible. How did you do it? Do you have this cell in production? Are you selling this already. I want to buy one.

[1973dodger]

1973dodger,

you ask me to teach you then mock me a sentence later. Did you really want me to reply to you with anything helpful? Did you respect me that little to assume I would be too stupid to see that? Go troll someplace else. 85 watts - 13LPM, if you can beat it, get a grant and make a billionaire of yourself. I beat Bob Boyce's 100LPM claim on a watt per liter ratio comparison.

Here is wikipedia's definition of troll dodger. ""An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion"
I don't take well to sarcasm, only discussion and you apparently have nothing to offer me there Dodger1973. Those are the last lines I will ever direct at you as I'm adding you to my ignore list.

GOY

I asked you a legit Question concerning your monikar. It was not aimed as an insult. You are the one who has resulted to name calling here. I was just not sure as to how to take your monikar, no sarcasm was intended. You have just misinterpreted the intention of my question. I assume since you did not answer the question, it is a matter of privacy. I just merely wanted to check out the source, before I took advice. Best of luck anyway.

1973dodger

[jimbo40]

1973Dodger.
Your question is a good one.
If Godoveryou is so arrogant to say he is God, by his monikar, which it appears he is saying, then I really don't care how efficient his cells are.
Because he would be Lording over you and expecting you to bow down to his great and almighty knowledge, and there is only one God over me.
And the way he took your question goes to show his arrogance,
and now I, not you have disrespect the great and almighty godoveryou,
I'm sure I will be called a troll and cast into his depths of troll realms.

So 1973Dodger, where do we troll on from here. Hey I know.
We can sit back and wait for the others to become trolls, and in a few melleium we might have a friend or 2.

Godoveryou, you must walk with a big limp because that chip on your sholder is going to one day break your back.

Now theres your sarcasm to drink down with your morning coffee.

Ohh please don't add me too the dreaded list I was just kidding:D
Hey just for the discussion you come here for, You say if he beats your cell efficeincy he'll become a billionaire? So does that mean your a half a billionaire?

Now how about we get down to some HHO?

[Farmercal]

Thanks for all the replies. Just so you know, I intend to cover the edges with a nonconducting material. I was going to cover the long sides, bottom and ends and leave the top open for the gas to escape and allowing the hotter water to exchange with the cooler water in the container. Perhaps I need to close off the top as well and just leave holes for gas to escape? I also have a way to keep the supply lines insulated to prevent current leakage.

I already have most of the materials on hand and more on the way, so I will give my idea a try and see what happens. This is only the third attempt at HHO for me the first two were designed around the Water4Gas model and were complete failures. I have read tons of material and learned massively since I joined this forum. This is also not the last booster design, just another stepping stone. Thanks again.

Also, as far the the pi$$ing contest...let's not go there folks. Everyone here can learn from one another and hopefully make the gas go three times as far eventually. Keep the ideas flowing let's keep learning.

[1973dodger]

1973Dodger.
Your question is a good one.
If Godoveryou is so arrogant to say he is God, by his monikar, which it appears he is saying, then I really don't care how efficient his cells are.
Because he would be Lording over you and expecting you to bow down to his great and almighty knowledge, and there is only one God over me.
And the way he took your question goes to show his arrogance,
and now I, not you have disrespect the great and almighty godoveryou,
I'm sure I will be called a troll and cast into his depths of troll realms.

So 1973Dodger, where do we troll on from here. Hey I know.
We can sit back and wait for the others to become trolls, and in a few melleium we might have a friend or 2.

Godoveryou, you must walk with a big limp because that chip on your sholder is going to one day break your back.

Now theres your sarcasm to drink down with your morning coffee.

Ohh please don't add me too the dreaded list I was just kidding:D
Hey just for the discussion you come here for, You say if he beats your cell efficeincy he'll become a billionaire? So does that mean your a half a billionaire?

Now how about we get down to some HHO?

Certainly this man, goy, has issues. Thanks for backing me. I think it is easy to make claims such as his, but so far I have found nothing in regards to proof. I certainly am no where close to these numbers in efficiency, but what I have done, I have and will share freely with this group. To me, the enemy is not "mr. goy" or the likes of him, but the ones responsible for diesel being $4.67 / gallon. As to mr. goy, he can keep his information to himself as well as his arrogance. This forum has been set up for us "common folk", not for the like of those who consider themselves "gods". The rest of you can decide on your own, whether to bow down at "mr. goy"s" feet, I for one will not be any part of it.

Farmercal, I would suggest you use plumbers goop to seal the edges, the many many other sealants I have tried just don't seem to hold up. Hope this helps.

1973dodger

[Farmercal]

Farmercal, I would suggest you use plumbers goop to seal the edges, the many many other sealants I have tried just don't seem to hold up. Hope this helps.

1973dodgerActually I was thinking more on the lines of placing plexiglas. I have some and have no use for it other for that purpose.

[Jimbo61]

Here is an idea..tell me if I am way off.
I am building the same type of design, 4" PVC, SS Wallplates as the Smack, but the plates config is different. 6 TOTAL PLATES.
I am about to test this weekend the following plate config to see which is best for the "Smack".

( , nylon washer; + Pos Plate ; N Neutral Plate; - Negative Plate)

+,NNNN,-


and

+,NN,NN,-

and

+,N,N,N,N,-

[JojoJaro]

1973Dodger.
Your question is a good one.
If Godoveryou is so arrogant to say he is God, by his monikar, which it appears he is saying, then I really don't care how efficient his cells are.
Because he would be Lording over you and expecting you to bow down to his great and almighty knowledge, and there is only one God over me.
And the way he took your question goes to show his arrogance,
and now I, not you have disrespect the great and almighty godoveryou,
I'm sure I will be called a troll and cast into his depths of troll realms.

So 1973Dodger, where do we troll on from here. Hey I know.
We can sit back and wait for the others to become trolls, and in a few melleium we might have a friend or 2.

Godoveryou, you must walk with a big limp because that chip on your sholder is going to one day break your back.

Now theres your sarcasm to drink down with your morning coffee.

Ohh please don't add me too the dreaded list I was just kidding:D
Hey just for the discussion you come here for, You say if he beats your cell efficeincy he'll become a billionaire? So does that mean your a half a billionaire?

Now how about we get down to some HHO?

Hey, Jimbo40, Dodger, let's not hijack this thread with a discussion about GOY.

Dodger, While your question is legit, you could have framed it in a more friendly way.

Jimbo40, I do not think GOY's moniker means that god (him) is over us. I think it is a blessing. As in "May God be over you", as in "May God Bless you". In fact, that was the first thing that came into my mind when I first saw it. I just don't see the arrogance from GOY that you are alluding to. As for his design. It may or may not be true. If true, then we might be closer to a fully H20-powered car. If not, no harm done, our quest continues. Either way, I can be content about it.

[JojoJaro]

Here is an idea..tell me if I am way off.
I am building the same type of design, 4" PVC, SS Wallplates as the Smack, but the plates config is different. 6 TOTAL PLATES.
I am about to test this weekend the following plate config to see which is best for the "Smack".

( , nylon washer; + Pos Plate ; N Neutral Plate; - Negative Plate)

+,NNNN,-


and

+,NN,NN,-

and

+,N,N,N,N,-

Don't forget to try

+,N,N,N,N,N,-


Many people seems to have good results with it. The "hydrogen" PDF also seems to think this is the best configuration based on voltage. Make sure you test with 13.8V.

[godoveryou]

You guys are truly funny. Has anyone here every read Stanley Meyer's Technical Briefing on his cell? He mentions god several times. People who venture into this area should understand that if you respect the energy contained in water that you have to respect it's natural beauty. I don't care what faith you are. I as a matter of fact I am not christian.

Think about water. It's graceful, and fits to any shape - yet when moving can be the most destructive force known to man. It's something we all drink for survival, but it contains enough energy to power our modern world. Even if you don't think there is a god, you have to respect water. It's that water that is god over you, me, and everything around us as it can kill anything in it's path, but yet it's what provides us life.

It's amazing how insecure some of you are to think that I would immediately use a name to put myself in a position over you. I'm sorry that I didn't consider your personal flaws when I made my name, but I didn't think that I would be interacting with people that had such fragile ego's. But they are your flaws, I did nothing to create them - I just have to live with them apparently.

Water is God - it decides who lives and who dies.

[godoveryou]

GOY, that is amazing efficiency. 153 mmw. This is way over the 6.183 mmw theoritical max efficiency that I thought was possible. How did you do it? Do you have this cell in production? Are you selling this already. I want to buy one.

I have no interest in selling cells. The basic principles for creating that reaction is to create de-ionization in the dielectric and use the remaining current to seperate the fragile bond between the remaining HO molecule. If you stop thinking about it in terms of electrolysis, it helps. You are just creating an atmosphere, then providing a little additional energy to break a bond that's just looking for a reason anyways.

To illustrate it, take two H2O molecules.

H20 H20
It becomes
HO and H3O
you then seperate
HO
into
H and O and H30

It happens all the time in nature. Theres no magic, you just need to recreate the proper conditions for it to occur.

For me to type out an entire process for it would be similar to Mr. Meyer's attempt to go public. It would be met with much debate and people that don't understand the process yet argue with you anyways. Or people that attempt to duplicate it, then can't and call it a fraud. That' why I put the line about Meyer's into my signature, to attempt to fend off those types. I would hope that they would reason that if Meyer's couldn't be duplicated.... fill in the blank :) I don't have time to debate what I do, I would spend the rest of my life fighting the world and big oil to prove what? I know it works, I know I've done it... what do I have to gain by proving it to someone? That's why I don't speak about my process much on this board, I just offer advice to others with their projects. I don't sell anything and have no intention on it. If I did in the future, it would be just very basic cells. If you search my threads you will see what I have to say about my personal goals, but also how I feel about the idea of a public announcement of energy independance.

If my advice is not appreciated, I'll move on. And that's not a pat me on the back statement. It's just a matter of deciding if dealing with peoples personal problems is worth helping the few with their projects, and that's my decision no matter what others say. In the mean time, I see many people hitting road blocks because they aren't thinking far enough outside of the box. I'm just trying to push them a little further out of that box, hoping that they get the results they want. It's a shame that certain individuals such as though above have sensative ego issue's and insecurities that would prevent that from occuring.

Have a good one,
GOY

[overtaker]

Sorry but there is no salvation in water. In fact we can live much longer without water than oxygen. Maybe oxygen is God? I don't worship the creation but need to worship the creator. Feel free to bow to your glass of water.

[godoveryou]

Salvation is a christian term. I am not christian, as stated above.

Water contains oxygen. Therefore Water > Oxygen. Pretty short sighted on your part, but so is thinking so little of water when you are trying to power your car with it, or spend money to send current through it.

[smartHHO]

Sorry but there is no salvation in water. In fact we can live much longer without water than oxygen. Maybe oxygen is God? I don't worship the creation but need to worship the creator. Feel free to bow to your glass of water.

Don't forget, your body is over 90% water, not oxygen. Yes, you would die fast with no Oxy, but dehydration is worse. Slow and painful, not quick.

[mario brito]

Hello everyone ! How's everything ? :D

I've been quiet for a few days, and you guys are already "fighting" ? And not a single one called me ? Not fair... :p

I see we have lots of new members. And I also see that some of these members didn't start today on HHO... They know what they are talking about.

So, lets cool down a bit ok ? ok ? ok ? ok ? ok ? :)

This forum is a little different from some others. We share info. And we don't like arrogance. But sometimes, we don't want to be arrogant and in the end it sounds like it. Because when we've "been there, done that" we tend to forget that others have not. And what is obvious to us, isn't for others.

So, why don't we all have some pacience ( spelling ? ) with eachothers ?

I also want to say one thing. Sometimes, the problem is not what we say, but the way we say it.

Lets imagine that I know that someone's cell is crap. I wouldn't say "that doesn't work, it's bad, I've done much better".

But I would say "I've already done a try on that, and it didn't worked because of A and B. Why don't you try C ?"

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks

[computerclinic]

1973Dodger.

Godoveryou, you must walk with a big limp because that chip on your sholder is going to one day break your back.


ROFLMAO...Im gonna have to remember that one...lol

[godoveryou]

I missed that. The limp is from "An old war injury," lol.... the chip is a natural genetic gift.

[overtaker]

GOY, your advise is appreciated with me and I look forward to reading your every post. I'm just glad we cleared up your name so we can all put it behind us and also know where we all stand. Now for my name " overtaker" actually was a name of a model car i put together as a child and always thought it was a pretty cool name. I later used it as a c.b. handle. LOL

[godoveryou]

My every post? LOL. Well, how about if I don't hold you to that? :p

[overtaker]

I do more reading than posting cause I got more to learn than to teach.

[overtaker]

One more thing GOY, Yes Stanley Meyer may have mentioned God several times in his briefings, but printed on his car was " Jesus Christ is Lord " so I'm sure he didn't consider water his God. :) See, I do try to read your every post. ;)

[JojoJaro]

I have no interest in selling cells. The basic principles for creating that reaction is to create de-ionization in the dielectric and use the remaining current to seperate the fragile bond between the remaining HO molecule. If you stop thinking about it in terms of electrolysis, it helps. You are just creating an atmosphere, then providing a little additional energy to break a bond that's just looking for a reason anyways.

To illustrate it, take two H2O molecules.

H20 H20
It becomes
HO and H3O
you then seperate
HO
into
H and O and H30

It happens all the time in nature. Theres no magic, you just need to recreate the proper conditions for it to occur.

For me to type out an entire process for it would be similar to Mr. Meyer's attempt to go public. It would be met with much debate and people that don't understand the process yet argue with you anyways. Or people that attempt to duplicate it, then can't and call it a fraud. That' why I put the line about Meyer's into my signature, to attempt to fend off those types. I would hope that they would reason that if Meyer's couldn't be duplicated.... fill in the blank :) I don't have time to debate what I do, I would spend the rest of my life fighting the world and big oil to prove what? I know it works, I know I've done it... what do I have to gain by proving it to someone? That's why I don't speak about my process much on this board, I just offer advice to others with their projects. I don't sell anything and have no intention on it. If I did in the future, it would be just very basic cells. If you search my threads you will see what I have to say about my personal goals, but also how I feel about the idea of a public announcement of energy independance.
GOY


What is this H30 compound you're talking about. I am an engineer with substantial training in electricity, chemistry and thermodynamics and I have never heard of this H30 molecule. It does not makes sense from an 'Electron Valency' point of view nor from the energy balance point of view. Why would 2 more stable h20 molecule spontaneously become an H30 and OH molecules? That violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Are you referring to Heavy water as h30? If so, you have completely misunderstood what Heavy water is.

Sometimes, you give people a chance to explain their ideas. I would like to give you this chance now, before more of us begin to judge your work based on the partial data you have provided.

[overtaker]

Engineer trained in electricity, chemistry and thermodynamics, man do I feel uneducated. Is everyone here smarter than I?

[JojoJaro]

Engineer trained in electricity, chemistry and thermodynamics, man do I feel uneducated. Is everyone here smarter than I?

I am an electrical engineer and I run our family's Ice plant when I was home during college. I got a good deal of training and education in mechanics and thermodynamics from our resident engineer during that time. As for chemistry, my girlfriend has a PhD in Chemistry so she lectures me all the time. :-)

But I still need to come up with an HHO device that is 1000 mmw efficient so that I can be a billionaire.

[1973dodger]

Mario, good to have you back amongst us.

Jojojaro, you still think "Goy" is not the arrogant, self righteous, know-it-all I pegged him for. His post tells me everything I need to know about the man and his attitude toward us mear mortals.

g.o.y., water is god, what a load of crap. Your holiness, the only one who appears to have an ego problem here, is you. You are pretty much what I expected you to be. What a pity, you possibly could have been a real asset to this forum.

1973dodger

[mario brito]

But I still need to come up with an HHO device that is 1000 mmw efficient so that I can be a billionaire.

Or a not-breathing person :D

It's good to be back. :) I've got some news, but I have to prepare all the data and will post in the next few days.

Thanks

[godoveryou]

I thought I was pretty clear when I said that I won't talk about my work. :mad:

But since it appears in my opinion that you have been preprogrammed from your schooling, as is often the case with people that I speak to who make it a point to sit back on point out their formal education in these topics, I'm rather amazed you can't understand the auto-disassociation of water. I'm MORE amazed that you don't know what Hydronium is. It's H3O. It's not some molecule I made up to sound important, it's been around for... ohhh, well since the beginning of time I would guess. The process is an example of autoprotolsis and is dependent on the amphoteric nature of water. It's a really basic concept, and simply occurs in nature on a very very regular basis. Once you begin to excite the electrons in the molecules, with high voltages and low current, you will eventually hit a point in which you have a massive spike in current through the dielectric creating a catastrophic breakdown in that dielectric creating massive amounts of gas - under the correct circumstances of course.

Have you guess what this occurs in, in nature? Lightening. Since you are as highly educated as you are, you should now begin to deduce what is going on here. Pure water dissociates into equal amounts of H3O+ and OH-, and their molarities are equal. Does that make it a bit more realistic for you? H3O+ and OH- are neutral, just like H20. Deionized water had most of the impurity ions removed (like Na+ and Cl-). I would suggest you google the Grotthus Mechanism if you don't already know what it is. It's key to understanding how the proton of the hydronium ion travels along water.

My process creates an electrical field that produces a hydroxide and hydronium ion. It is from there that small amounts of current break those molecules down further into the gases normally gotten from electrolysis. 2H2O = H30 + OH, it's that simple.

I'm done from here on out. If you want to know more about the process, Click Here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=self+ionization+of+water&btnG=Search

Like I said, it happens in nature constantly. My cell just reproduces the circumstances needed for it, a small amount of current is applied to break the remaining bonds down.

I turn 2H2O into H30+ and OH-. I complete the disassociation before the hydrogen reorients and gas is made, all are happy.

As far as HEAVY WATER, which has absolutely nothing to do with what I do : I'm perfectly aware that it is D2O, and I have no interest in it.

Do you understand what I'm doing? Does your girlfriend since you brought her up? Either way, I'm done talking about my work. If you have that amount of education, you should see exactly what's happening in my cell. If you still don't get it, click that link above and you'll learn all about the process.

Have a great one,
GOY

[overtaker]

Ok, now in layman terms. :) I'M SORRY I forgot to mention that I flush with water. Maybe I should change my ways. Any suggestions? :D

[godoveryou]

I'm going to make a list of links for everyone. Not because I'm a know-it-all prick, but because I think it will better help people understand what's going on in my cells.

Wiki on self ionization of water : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water

Chemistry of SI: http://www.123exp-chemistry.com/t/01574168409/

Dictionary of SI:
http://www.babylon.com/definition/self-ionization_of_water/English

Grotthus Mechanism on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grotthuss_mechanism

And Overtaker, I do appreciate your humor. However, someone just needed me to discuss this more, and tried to impress upon me that his level of education would dictate he would understand what needed to be said. There's no reall way to simplify it, so I posted these links. It's one of the many reasons I don't discuss my cells. I simply don't have time to go through an defend these WIDELY ACCEPTED electrochemical processes. I'm still not sure why, but if it makes people happy... and I suppose because I hope to gain a little more acceptance here even though my methods are far beyond abnormal. I don't really use electrolysis in how it's typically applied.

Either way, if you guys want to make me the butt of jokes, that's fine, but at least click the links and read a little bit about what I'm doing. Maybe it can be a two for one and you can both make fun of me and learn something at the same times. Maybe it will give a new direction to others, I don't know. All I know is that I'm rubbing everyone the wrong way, and I don't know how to correct it without pretending like I'm just sicking some metal in a tube and making gas.

GOY

[overtaker]

Humor is all it is! I can take a joke just as well. :) I'm going to start a new thread and I hope you take over. I'm glad they changed you to a mentor. Stick around I have a lot to learn.

[JojoJaro]

GOY, one thing that this response told me is that you are good. You are so good at taking wiki articles and using the terms and concepts and to attempt to make your imaginary process more probable in the eyes of some people. But that is not going to work for me.

So, you are telling me that you've invented a process that will cause the autodissociation of h20 molecules and then cause the liberation of nascent Hydrogen and oxygen at the rate of 13 LPM, all for the expended power of 85 Watts.

WOW, you have just superceeded all the laws of thermodynamics and quantum mechanics combined.

By golly man, you have invented the 'Perpetual Motion Machine'. Why on earth are we still using crude oil. People laugh at legitimate researchers of HHO technologies because of people like you. Come on, how stupid do you think I am.

BTW, I showed this to my girlfriend and she laughed at me. She was giggling so hard she was all red in the face. Later I found out why she was giggling so hard. She wasn't laughing at your impossible process, she was laughing at me because for a second there, I really thought you had something.

[overtaker]

I think he has something.

[godoveryou]

Okay. Most "Formally educated" individuals laugh at HHO so I'm not really shocked if you have a problem with that, she has a problem with it, etc. How many millions of people laugh at Stanley Meyer's claims today? Just about everyone with any "Education" in chemistry, chemical engineering, etc etc.

Laugh at what I do, it doesn't cost me anything and it keeps you entertained. It sounds like a win win situation to me. I still get to do what I do, you still get to think it's impossible or absurd, and we all go on doing what it is that we do.

Just one question - if I made it all up, where did I come up with my information? How would I know about any of these things? I find it funny that you think I would know about these things, but somehow I wouldn't be intelligent enough to put them to work. Stanley harmonically created disassociation. How many people have done that? I duplicate the effects of waters own auto disassociation, and not many people have done that either. Whats the difference? None, they are both unacceptable in the eyes of science. People with your education have the same reaction, and that's fine.

Stan cared that people listened to him. I don't, I was never after that. I just wanted to help people and suddenly my work came under attack, but that's the nature of breaking trends and working outside a box. Nobody believes it, they insult the individual, and insist that they are correct and that the "Other guy" is a fraud, a fake, and a liar. Well.... like I said, I get to continue to do what I am doing, and you get to continue to laugh. To me it doesn't look like there is anything other than winners here. You think I'm a fake, I think you're too well educated to think about the actual simplicity involved... But that's how the cookie crumbles. There will always be those two sides.

[Q-Hack!]

You think I'm a fake, I think you're too well educated to think about the actual simplicity involved... But that's how the cookie crumbles. There will always be those two sides.

It would go a long way to validate your claims with a show of your design. You talk like you have a great deal of knowledge, but if you have truly come up with a good design, share it.

[JojoJaro]

Okay. Most "Formally educated" individuals laugh at HHO so I'm not really shocked if you have a problem with that, she has a problem with it, etc. How many millions of people laugh at Stanley Meyer's claims today? Just about everyone with any "Education" in chemistry, chemical engineering, etc etc.

Laugh at what I do, it doesn't cost me anything and it keeps you entertained. It sounds like a win win situation to me. I still get to do what I do, you still get to think it's impossible or absurd, and we all go on doing what it is that we do.

Just one question - if I made it all up, where did I come up with my information? How would I know about any of these things? I find it funny that you think I would know about these things, but somehow I wouldn't be intelligent enough to put them to work. Stanley harmonically created disassociation. How many people have done that? I duplicate the effects of waters own auto disassociation, and not many people have done that either. Whats the difference? None, they are both unacceptable in the eyes of science. People with your education have the same reaction, and that's fine.

Stan cared that people listened to him. I don't, I was never after that. I just wanted to help people and suddenly my work came under attack, but that's the nature of breaking trends and working outside a box. Nobody believes it, they insult the individual, and insist that they are correct and that the "Other guy" is a fraud, a fake, and a liar. Well.... like I said, I get to continue to do what I am doing, and you get to continue to laugh. To me it doesn't look like there is anything other than winners here. You think I'm a fake, I think you're too well educated to think about the actual simplicity involved... But that's how the cookie crumbles. There will always be those two sides.


Need I point out to you that Stan Meyer's work has never been duplicated. People built identical apparatus using his patent papers and never came up with the output and efficiency he claimed.

So as far as I'm concerned, Stan Meyer is still a hoax, and so are you.

Goodness gracious man, if you have invented the technology to liberate us all from the grip of crude oil, why aren't you patenting it, building it, selling it and making a billion for yourself. The fact that you are wasting you time defending yourself in this forum instead of building your 'supercell' tells me something is not right. This is last response to you concerning this matter.

[godoveryou]

Sounds good to me. Read my signature, it answered all of your questions by the way.

[overtaker]

I believe Mr. Meyers held back info on his patents. Just my 2 cents. Or there was more to come later.

[Q-Hack!]

Sounds good to me. Read my signature, it answered all of your questions by the way.

I think until you produce something, I will label you a really verbose troll.

[jimbo40]

GodoverMe,
If you want to make the tables turn, Through a tarp over your cells and show us at least for a start that amount of pruduction on a you tube video, and something with your name on it in the video also. Oh and you'll have to show that the bubbles pop, or then it's just an air tube to me..

Or tell us all something we can practice with our cell's that we haven't done yet, and that will make a difference.

And today I will pray for your Salvation
Christ was with his father when water was created.
God Bless you.
(absolutely no ill intent or sarcasm here)

Jim

[computerclinic]

Come on folks, this thread is getting WAY off topic!:(

If the conversations continue to bash eachother instead of exchanging information, I may just have to create a thread specifically for bashing and trashing eachother....

Me personally, I could care less about what one chooses as a name for themselves,...whats importaint is what folks have to offer....So far I am seeing alot of negative posts towards eachother over simple things that can be overlooked.....

Please keep the topics to HHO related issues and not religon...So what about a name.....I just wanna make bubbles explode:)

The staff and I agree to keep the forum FREE for everyone to use, even though it creates more work for us with no compensation for our time and efforts....Its tough enough trying to keep up with the spammers, bots and other bad guys..much less folks bashing eachother....

Nothing wrong with a good debate or heated conversations---this is america and I believe thats how things get done...but lets keep it to the topic so that the things WE get done are HHO related because no one benifits from a conversation related to ego, trolling, or names...

Thanks folks

[overtaker]

Computerclinic Thank you for your time. Is humor ok? :D My concern is losing a poster who has a lot of knowledge to offer the rest of us.

[redneckgearhead34]

I have never seen this "smack" design of a HHo generator. Couls some one please post a link to its website or something of that sort.


Also since I am fairly new at this. Could some on please explain the purpose of having neutral plates in the middle and only charged ones on the end?

[Q-Hack!]

Here you go...

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smack.pdf

Hope it helps.

[Farmercal]

I
Also since I am fairly new at this. Could some on please explain the purpose of having neutral plates in the middle and only charged ones on the end?It has been said by many here that any voltage over 2 volts (I can't remember the exact voltage) just creates heat. When you introduce plates into the design that are not physically connected to the negative or positive charge, the current will jump thought the so-called neutral plate to get to the other connected plate. For each plate it jumps through the voltage drops and you reduce heat of the cell itself.

Of course you have to stop the current from just traveling through the water (around the neutral plates) to get to the other side and that is why people are wrapping their cells with some sort of non-conducting material.

I am not an expert at this, just learning like everyone else. I WILL get producing cell it's the when I am not sure of yet.