curious about heat managment

[mmickey]

i have read on here where folks have connected a pump and a small radiator to circulate the electrolite.was wondering if anyone has ever took a piece of copper tubing and bent it in a u-shape. ran the 2 ends back up thru the top or cap.put a check valve on one endto let air in but not out.seems as the electrolite heats up the hot air would rise thru the open end drawing cool air thru the check valve to replace it.the pipe could be bent in diffrent configurations for more surface area.and i guess a ball type valve could be put on to regulate the air flow.was just wonderin if this had been tried.
marvin

[godoveryou]

I think this is a horrible idea personally. You then expose your dielectric to all sorts of nasty stray voltages and magnetic fields. On top of that, it will pick up residue from whatever your radiator is made from and introduce unknown variables into the chamber. The final draw back is that each cell should have it own seperate bath, so you would need multiple radiators if you will, one for each cell.

If you could shield each radiator, and construct it out of the same material as your electrode, AND have the room for between 6 to 8 of them, then that's would be workable - except for that fact that you can't account for the pump. That would still be very problematic from the shielding standpoint.

I do credit the idea though.

[mmickey]

i can understand that.the tube could be made out of ss.it wouldn't be connected to anything.was just thinking of heat transfer to air flowing thru the tube.didnt think of the effect it mite have on the fields
marvin

[otrcomm]

I am one of the folks using a pump and heater core to control heat in my generators. The heater core tubing is copper, and I cleaned it very well before I started using it, so I don't think there are any contaminants coming from the system. I am not sure why you would need to isolate the electrolyte from the separate generators, so I don't understand the need for separate radiators. But I definitely don't know all there is to know about electrolysis and these system we are experimenting with.

The only downside I can see right now by using a electrolyte recirculation system is that it may reduce efficiency somewhat since there is hydrogen gas captured in the recirculating electrolyte. However, there is still plenty of gas that makes it out of my generators to the engine air intake. But, there would probably be more hydrogen/oxygen making it to the intake without the recirculation.

[godoveryou]

I am one of the folks using a pump and heater core to control heat in my generators. The heater core tubing is copper, and I cleaned it very well before I started using it, so I don't think there are any contaminants coming from the system. I am not sure why you would need to isolate the electrolyte from the separate generators, so I don't understand the need for separate radiators. But I definitely don't know all there is to know about electrolysis and these system we are experimenting with.

The only downside I can see right now by using a electrolyte recirculation system is that it may reduce efficiency somewhat since there is hydrogen gas captured in the recirculating electrolyte. However, there is still plenty of gas that makes it out of my generators to the engine air intake. But, there would probably be more hydrogen/oxygen making it to the intake without the recirculation.

Because sharing the electrolyte just heats it and creates a massive amount of wasted energy with little to no gas. Bob Boyce's cell can produce roughly 50-100 liters per minute of HHO with minimum respective current draw. With a very simple 7 cell generator my best efficiency ever (with that cell) was roughly 13 LPM using 86 watts. If you were to brute force it, that would be just about a hair over 7 amp draw at 12 volts. There is simply no way possible to generate that kind of gas production on 7 amps using a single bath cell. With a single bath cell you would be lucky to see .3-.5LPM on 7 amps. My production was only 32.5 times greater using the same amount of power. Per example, scroll down in the threads. A guy is making .7 LPM on 25 amps with a single bath cell. That's horrid.

You have to remember that power isn't free. It creates drag that your engine has to make up for. So while a single bath generator such as yours might produce let's say 1LPM on 15-20amps at 12-14 volts, it is GROSSLY inefficient by comparison. But single bath cells are easy. They aren't great, not even good really, but they are easy.

So now that you see the numbers do you understand why it is critical to seperate the cells? But who am I to stop someone from doing as they wish? I'm reaching towards the creation of using water as the only fuel source, because that's my personal goal. A single cell would likely be fine for someone that just wants to supplement an engine with little regaurd for production vs. power consumed. And if it that works for them, they likely wouldn't need a radiator anyways. :)

GOY

[otrcomm]

In all fairness though, I believe that the need to recirculate the electrolyte to manage heat is a work-around. I believe that the best solution is to have some type of pulse modulation like from a pwm. According to what I have read, pulse modulation controls heat build up and current flow.

I am in the process of building one of the pwm circuits that Dave Lawton translated from a Stan Meyer circuit. If it works as expected, I will eliminate the recirculation cooling system I am using.

I just wanted to test some new prototypes in a vehicle before I built the electronic circuits and the recirculation system works to keep the prototype cool. And again, it really doesn't seem to bother anything except maybe reduce generator efficiency somewhat.

[godoveryou]

Maybe I'm unfamiliar with your circumstances, but I still see it as this:

Pro's : Control's Heat

Con's: Possible contaminents which effect conductive and therefore electron excitability, magnetic interference, current interference, complexity of build, potential for leaks, loss of pressure, dielectric physical instability (because it's moving), contamination in the event of pump wear (plastic, grease, etc.) ..

I just don't see it as a wise investment.

PWM does help with heat, but I don't see heat as an enemy, I see it as a challange. Controlling the voltage per cell and current demands is a VASTLY more effective approach to heat control. PWM's can help, and hurt it's dependant on the dielectric. A PWM circuit that is way out of "Tune" so to say can easily do more harm than good by simply greating electron excitment with little reaction. The idea is to super excite the the molecule and create a catastrophic failure in the dielectric. That's much easier said than done.