new guy here with a few questions

[xjguy]

im glad i found this forum it might help answer some questions that i have..
my setup is 12 20 ga stainless plates in a +-+- configuration. im using distilled water and 1/2 teaspoon of koh

when i had 1/4 teaspoon i did 600ml in 1 minute at about 10 amps
i added 1/4 teaspoon and reran the test this time i created 600ml in about 30 secs BUT my wire got very hot and the terminals on the top actually melter into the plastic. im using no wire on the inside at all. and on the outside im using 3 strands of 16ga wound into 1 wire and crimp on connectors

so my question is how can i increase output with out increaseing heat? if i used larger gauge wire would it be better? if i ran +-nnn+- setup would it be better?

[Phantom240]

im glad i found this forum it might help answer some questions that i have..
my setup is 12 20 ga stainless plates in a +-+- configuration. im using distilled water and 1/2 teaspoon of koh

when i had 1/4 teaspoon i did 600ml in 1 minute at about 10 amps
i added 1/4 teaspoon and reran the test this time i created 600ml in about 30 secs BUT my wire got very hot and the terminals on the top actually melter into the plastic. im using no wire on the inside at all. and on the outside im using 3 strands of 16ga wound into 1 wire and crimp on connectors

so my question is how can i increase output with out increaseing heat? if i used larger gauge wire would it be better? if i ran +-nnn+- setup would it be better?
Yes. I would recommend at LEAST 10awg wire, if not 8awg.

[xjguy]

Yes. I would recommend at LEAST 10awg wire, if not 8awg.

ok if i step up to 8 awg wire the bolts in the top that i use as my terminals are 1/4" diameter should i step that up as well or are they getting hot because of so much resistence on the wire

[Phantom240]

I would make sure they're getting a good solid connection to the wire... but I would say theyre getting hot due to the wire. I do a lot of work with car audio, and big wire is kinda my field. I would monitor the bolts' heat though.

[xjguy]

I would make sure they're getting a good solid connection to the wire... but I would say theyre getting hot due to the wire. I do a lot of work with car audio, and big wire is kinda my field. I would monitor the bolts' heat though.

thats what was thinking too i hope i dont have to increase bolt size that would mean i have to make my mounts for the cell over again.

what do you think about me changing the plate config to +nnnn-nnnn+ i have noticed from my cell so far that the negative is what actually creates the hydrogen so it seems to me that reducing my cell from 6 negs to only 1 would hurt production dramtaically. is this an accurate way of thinking?

[xjguy]

i am now trying a new plate configuration -nnnn+nnnn- so far the output appears be about half with twice as much electrolyte but amperage is down around 2 amps right now and temp is low as well .....im gonna let it run for an hour or so and make sure i dont get a runaway effect. ill post the update in a few

[Phantom240]

you mean to say that you're drawing 2 amps total? That's really low. My prototype generator drew about 10 amps and was actually quite efficient for such a simple design lol.

[xjguy]

the test i just ran was at 3 amps and 2 teaspoons of koh and in 1 minute made 600 ml
the plate configuration this time was
-nnnn+nnnn- temp does get up somewhat but no enough for concern probably 120 at most im gonna double up on electrolyte and see what i get from that hopefully i can get the amperage up and keep the heat down

[xjguy]

next test
same configuration as before but with 3 teaspoons of koh had 750 ml at best in a 1 minute so its back to the drawing board for a bit

[Phantom240]

750 is actually pretty good for only 3 amps current draw.

[Stratous]

Wow 750 ml is really good at 3amps. Sounds to me like you should put your drawing board on the site because its good.

[Stratous]

ok if i step up to 8 awg wire the bolts in the top that i use as my terminals are 1/4" diameter should i step that up as well or are they getting hot because of so much resistence on the wire

1/4" ss terminals should handle 30amps easily enough. I currently use 5/16 ss bolts and have pumped 60 amps through them. They havent gotten hot yet. I originally used 12 gauge wire, but like you it got hot. I then bought 8 gauge 1000 watt wire. I use that and 4 gauge. The 8 gauge I used is multi strand audio wire. The box says its good for 1000 watts, thats about 70 amps at 14v. I have gotten it hot before, but that was at about 45 amps. The 4 gauge wire hasnt gotten hot yet. I believe its rated for 120amps, but not positive.

[xjguy]

thanks for the info i have changed plate config again ill update when i have results

[Phantom240]

1/4" ss terminals should handle 30amps easily enough. I currently use 5/16 ss bolts and have pumped 60 amps through them. They havent gotten hot yet. I originally used 12 gauge wire, but like you it got hot. I then bought 8 gauge 1000 watt wire. I use that and 4 gauge. The 8 gauge I used is multi strand audio wire. The box says its good for 1000 watts, thats about 70 amps at 14v. I have gotten it hot before, but that was at about 45 amps. The 4 gauge wire hasnt gotten hot yet. I believe its rated for 120amps, but not positive.

8awg is not good for any more than 50 amps or so (or about 600w). Trust me on this, I almost burned my car down using 8awg wire for an amp which was quite a current hog, pulling 80 amps at full tilt. Cheaper wire of the same gauge is also undersized, making it capable of even less. You get what you pay for in essence.

I use wire from a company called KnuKonceptz, their website is http://www.knukonceptz.com/ Their wire is amazingly flexible, and the "Kolossus" series wire is oversized as hell. Their Kolossus 4awg is technically 3awg lol... their stuff is solid, and VERY affordable.

When in doubt, go bigger.

[xjguy]

we just ran another test we used 11 plates +n-n+n-n+n-
1/4 teaspoon of KOH and at less than 1 amp at 14.4 volts we hit 1 liter in less than 45 seconds. however after 3-4 minutes it was hot possibly boiling. our gap between plates is 1/16th

any ideas on how to cool this down without running a cooler?

**edit** we are questioning the integrity of our dvom so we are going to try an old analogue meter now under the same circumstances to see if we are really drawing such little amperage



ps does koh put of any harmful fumes as its being used?

[Stratous]

Yes, what ever your using to measure your current draw is defective. At 1 amp you should not get hot. I would bet your drawing better than 15 amps to get hot that quickly. Most multimeters only read up to 10 amps, so hopefully you have somthing better. My container holds 1 gallon of water and I use 1/4 teaspoon of NaOH. I have 16 plates that draw 30 amps. I can run for a few hours w/o getting too hot, but I have a cooling line that helps keep things below 140 degrees. KOH puts off chlorine gas according to wikipedia.

[Smith03Jetta]

Potassium Hydroxide KHO will not put off Chlorine gas. It has no Chlorine in the molecular formula. Potassium Chloride KCl will put off Chlorine Gas.

KHO <> KCl

There's a lot of differences between the two. The first is Potash Lye. The second is the 3rd chemical injected when the justice system performs a lethal injection. (Useful Trivia Knowlege)

Sodium Chloride (Table Salt) will put off Chlorine gas too.

Mr. Smith

[Stratous]

Humpf, guess I shouldnt trust wiki then...lol

[Ronjinsan]

Add neutral plates and pull vacuum! ;)

[xjguy]

Add neutral plates and pull vacuum! ;)
pulling vacuum will actually help keep the temp down? if i am correct if the kit is installed on a car the intake would pull a vacuum right? so if we start testing our unit on a car actually hooked up it may actually run cooler?