Trying to install a HHO kit for the first time...

[Viper77]

Hi everyone, first of all i´m glad i found this forum!

I received a few days ago a full HHO kit i purchased from h2ohybrid.org , thinking that i could avoid the learning curve to set it up, and boy i was wrong!
I took a picture of it so you can check it out:

http://tecnicostfe.com/IMG_00151.jpg

They claimed that installation was almost plug and play, what a joke!
As soon as i opened the package and started reading their "instructions" soon i realized that not only it wasn´t plug and play at all, also a lot of parts were still missing in the puzzle, not to mention that trying to buy some parts outside the US could be a pain in the rear end!
Also i think i´m the only person trying this kind of stuff where i live, Tenerife, Canary Islands (Spain)

So now i´m at the stage of having the generator and bubbler already phisically installed in my car, but i´m having a headache with the wiring, specifically the 30 amp relay, according to their instructions this is how i should wire it:

http://tecnicostfe.com/relaydiagram1.jpg

On the other hand, i found several diagrams like this one and also youtube videos wiring the relay differently as the pic below shows:

http://www.dtuls.com/wp-content/gallery/hho-generator-installation-instructions/generator-electrical.jpg

Which diagram should i use? I don´t want to screw up my car or any part of this package due to an incorrect wiring.
If you check both of them you will notice that 85 and 86 are inverted.

Also i would like to know how to do the wiring to the car fuse panel.
After getting that part clear also i would like to know how i have to connect the EFIE circuit they sent me called "Oxycomp-1", that according to them i need in order to make it work with a fuel-injection car.
I learnt a good deal of this HHO stuff over the last week, but still a long way to go!

Thank you very much,
Sebastian

[timetowinarace]

Ultimately they are both the same. The bottom one uses an additional switch.

Use the diagram they provided.

There should be a wire with a fuse clip on it so you can remove the ignition fuse and slip the fuse clip and fuse back in together.

How about taking the cover of the electrolyser(the biger box) and giving us a peak inside?

Good luck

[JojoJaro]

The 85 and 86 provide power to the coil. You should follow their wiring diagram.

[justaguy]

How about taking the cover of the electrolyser(the biger box) and giving us a peak inside?

LOL :)

[timetowinarace]

How about taking the cover of the electrolyser(the biger box) and giving us a peak inside?

LOL :)

Yep, I'm a nosey SOB. :D

[Q-Hack!]

yep, 85 and 86 are either side of the coil that engages the relay. Doesnt' really mater which one is connected to ground as long as the opposite is connected to the switchable voltage. It also doesn't matter if you swap 87 and 30. In fact quite a few automotive relays are designed so that you can plug them in upside down and they will still work.

Coincidentally 87a is a normally closed connection and opens when the relay is energized. So if you need a circuit powered up until you turn on your ignition switch...

[Q-Hack!]

How about taking the cover of the electrolyser(the biger box) and giving us a peak inside?

LOL :)

That would have been the first thing I would have done...

[FuzzyTomCat]

Hey Viper77

Is that a PWM in the photograph, the gizmo with the circuit board and switch ??

Fuzzy

[Mindcrime13]

damm, thats like a 1K kit!

[Viper77]

Thanks folks for your responses, i really appreciate it! :)

timetowinarace, JojoJaro and Q-Hack!: Thanks for the clarification on the relay wiring diagram, so i will use the diagram they provided, now it´s really clear!
Due to the excitement of seeing it up and running I forgot to open the generator and installed it in the car right away, as soon as i can i will take pics from the inside, but first i need to make some brackets that are easy to unmount, not like the ones i have right now...
Also now i´m wondering if the generator inside is made with stainless steel, the exterior is made of PVC.
They give a 3 year warranty so i doubt they would put some crappy materials in it.

FuzzyTomCat: The gizmo with the circuit board and switch is an oxygen sensor or EFIE enhancer called "Oxycomp-1" made by a company called Environmental Development Systems.
They didn´t me give a PWM, i don´t really know if i need one or not yet...

Mindcrime13: Actually i bought the smallest one suited for cars with 3.0L engines or less, it costed me $259 + $60 for the Oxycomp.
When i purchased it seems they were in the middle of changing to a newer and improved model and they sent me the new one that shows in their website at $399 for the price of the old one, only that in their new pics looks like they´re shipping it with a PWM now, at least it doesn´t look like the same device i received:

http://tecnicostfe.com/H2O-HMP-20.jpg

[Viper77]

I just had to take the generator out of the car due to other problem (have to change the water bomb, the HHO generator is not running yet) and took the opportunity to open it and take a picture on the inside, nothing really fancy as you can see...

http://tecnicostfe.com/Hidromax_inside.jpg

[Q-Hack!]

I predict that you will have a major problem with the terminals heating up and melting that nice box. If I were you, I would keep a close eye on your temps as you run this thing.

[FuzzyTomCat]

I predict that you will have a major problem with the terminals heating up and melting that nice box. If I were you, I would keep a close eye on your temps as you run this thing.

I agree these grey PVC "electrical boxes" may have a good temperature rating -40F to 185F but the factory cover gaskets are thin 1/32" to 1/16" and not really made from a material to hold fluids inside. The brass inserts in the back or bottom inside may also contaminate your electrolyte depending on which catalyst your using.

If the grey starts turning "brown" anywhere at all the box is way to hot.

Good Luck,
Fuzzy

[c02cutter]

How much production do they claim out of this unit. Just curious as I played with designs similar but my own. I may have replacement parts... If they snagged my drawings.. lol, wouldn't that be a trip.

[hydrotinkerer]

Just wondering what kind of catalyst the manufacturer wants you to use, and does manufacturer give a measurment of how much?

[candyman55]

I doubt that you will achieve any more than 1/2 LPM at best if that. heat will probably be the big issue I think a little silicone on the brass parts will also help. as the brass corrodes in the electolyte the temp will climb.

[Viper77]

Thanks for your input guys! So it looks like the unit is not as good as they wanted me to believe :(

Q-Hack!: Thanks for your suggestion, i don´t know how they can give then a 3-year warranty if the box will melt so easily.

FuzzyTomCat: Please tell me what you mean with "cover gaskets", sorry but english is not my native tongue.

c02cutter: These are the specs for this unit:

The H2O HMP 20 is designed specifically for smaller 3.0 liter engines. Producing 4 gallons of Hydrogen per hour maximizes its range up to 200 Miles!

H2O HMP 20 Specs:
Designed specifically for 3.0 Liter Engines
200 Mileage Range
4 Gallons of Hydrogen per hour
12 to 18 amps
ISO 9001 Certified Manufacture

hydrotinkerer: According to their instructions, this is what they recommend:
Fill your booster with distilled water and NaOH or KOH ONLY!!! No tap water, salt water or rainwater!!! No table salt or baking soda! These materials will permanently damage the booster. First fill the booster with distilled water about 2" from the top. Add a teaspoon of KOH and NaOH to the water and then slide the top into place
I was planning to use NaOH because it´s cheaper and easier to find.

candyman55: I will take that into consideration, is there anything else that you would recommend to improve this apparently lousy unit?

[sm0kin]

if you ever venture to take it apart i would wrap the bolts. you could use rubber tubing matched to size and just slip over the bolts.

[hmp]

Material: Fiberglass reinforced Polyester plastic.
• Impact Resistance: >7Nm, EN50014.
• Flammability: Self-extinguishing, UL 94 V0.
• Gasket Temperature Range:
Polyurethane Foam Gasket –40ºF to +194ºF
Silicone Foam Gasket –76º°F to +266ºF
Neoprene Gasket –40ºF to +212º°F
RFI Gasket –40ºF to +392ºF
• Captive Stainless Steel Lid Screws.
• Surface Resistance: >1012 Ohm to DIN 53482.
• Disruptive Strength: 18KV / mm to DIN 53482.
• Toxicity: Halogen Free.
• Protection Classifications:
NEMA Types: up to Nema 4, 4X
IP 66, EN 60529
• Approvals:
UL Listed File #E206630, UL 50, UL 508
CSA Approved
Det Norske Veritas File #828.11/FERe
Maritime Register of Shipping #83033.250


This unit produces more than most for its size...And remember..A confused mind says NO... ALL 316L RODS AND ALL WASHERS BOLTS 9001 ISO PARTS WITH CERTIFICATES..DEED MORE DETAILS CALL 805-277-3617
H2OHYBRID.ORG

[Q-Hack!]

Its the stray current flowing from one threaded rod to the other that will create the excess heat. Like SmOkin suggests, wrap those bolts (allthread) up with heatshrink tubing. Then you can play with the electrolyte levels and perhaps make it a bit more efficient. I am curious what your MMW is on that cell.

http://www.watervan.co.uk/tools.php

[Farmercal]

If I am doing the math right, 4 gallons of gas an hour...might come out to 1/4 liter per minute of gas? Anyone else?

[Viper77]

This unit could be the greatest, but with lack of support it gets pretty useless.
After more than a month i´m still trying to figure out how to connect the damn Oxycomp-1 (EFIE device) to the oxygen sensor and the computer. I already tried to contact you several times regarding this, but nothing, zilch, nada.
I´m seriously thinking in selling this thing on ebay ´cause it´s not doing any good in a carton box.
Or if you want it back i´ll be more than happy to ship it back to you.


Material: Fiberglass reinforced Polyester plastic.
• Impact Resistance: >7Nm, EN50014.
• Flammability: Self-extinguishing, UL 94 V0.
• Gasket Temperature Range:
Polyurethane Foam Gasket –40ºF to +194ºF
Silicone Foam Gasket –76º°F to +266ºF
Neoprene Gasket –40ºF to +212º°F
RFI Gasket –40ºF to +392ºF
• Captive Stainless Steel Lid Screws.
• Surface Resistance: >1012 Ohm to DIN 53482.
• Disruptive Strength: 18KV / mm to DIN 53482.
• Toxicity: Halogen Free.
• Protection Classifications:
NEMA Types: up to Nema 4, 4X
IP 66, EN 60529
• Approvals:
UL Listed File #E206630, UL 50, UL 508
CSA Approved
Det Norske Veritas File #828.11/FERe
Maritime Register of Shipping #83033.250


This unit produces more than most for its size...And remember..A confused mind says NO... ALL 316L RODS AND ALL WASHERS BOLTS 9001 ISO PARTS WITH CERTIFICATES..DEED MORE DETAILS CALL 805-277-3617
H2OHYBRID.ORG

[Viper77]

Ok, since you won´t answer anything at all i have no choice but to sell this Kit on eBay, you should have stated that the installation of this thing is not for everyone, your support is a joke. Period.
And that´s for not saying that the package took AGES to arrive, when i already have paid 2 months in advance or so for it.


This unit could be the greatest, but with lack of support it gets pretty useless.
After more than a month i´m still trying to figure out how to connect the damn Oxycomp-1 (EFIE device) to the oxygen sensor and the computer. I already tried to contact you several times regarding this, but nothing, zilch, nada.
I´m seriously thinking in selling this thing on ebay ´cause it´s not doing any good in a carton box.
Or if you want it back i´ll be more than happy to ship it back to you.