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View Full Version : vacuum issues and HHO



c02cutter
08-20-2008, 08:12 PM
I brought this up in another post, and have had some time to think on it.

Containers, and and automotive application. In my other post I had said we need a container that is sealed for pressure, and can handle vacuum pressure also. I used the aspect of the lasers I work with having to work on both conditions. A laser is pulled down to below zero atmosphere pressure, then pressurized to a specific atmosphere before being energized.

Us with containers, me, on the bench, are putting the container under pressure to run a bubbler. And most containers we are dealing with can handle that to a small extent. Vacuum pressure has to be a way better seal. The water tight cases that some are using are dealing with pressure from the outside not causing a leak to a specific depth. Not vacuum pressure caused from the inside. This is different as you can put pressure on a lid of a jar to make it seal better than it would with just it's natural seal.

Testing for this can be expensive, but I want to put out a challenge for finding a ready made container that is truly designed to handle these forces to a tested extent. Also the container needs to be truly modifiable by the “average Joe”, without major equipment involved. Just to make it workable by the people that want to experiment in HHO.

I have seen so many containers being used, and have seen from another forum where they say use a vent to stop the vacuum from pulling the the liquid to the motor. I know this can have disastrous results as supplying the vacuum a release will cause more pull in the direction of the vacuum. A check valve does not stop a leaky container from pulling towards the vacuum as we are supplying gas from a possible leak to the vacuum pull.

Another note here is that a vacuum leak can cause the motor to just plain run crappy. Being this is that where people do not see mpg gains even after doing all sorts of mods can possibly be caused by the computer going into default value from a vacuum leak in the system. This being caused by the cell not being truly sealed from the vacuum pressure involved.

Being “T'ed” off of a vital vacuum point can cause a big issue in how the vehicle will respond if there is a leak in the cell container. Changing the tuning curve of how the motor management will respond to the input data.

I need a good mechanic on this... but I think I may be on to a point.

c02cutter
08-20-2008, 10:01 PM
I'm bumping this as I know it needs addressed. Time for the ASE mechanics to deal with vacumm and engine performance.

wljohns
08-21-2008, 09:28 AM
Vacuum only makes the water boil at a lower temp. It does not increase HHO production. The more bubbles you see are one of two things. Either the outgasing of trapped air in the water. Or under reduced pressure boiling electrolyte.
On a flip side if we were to somehow increase the atmospheric pressure in our containers then the boiling point would rise.

chevytruckman1234
09-09-2008, 09:32 PM
If an engine weather it b a four cylinder up to a big V10 has a vaccum leak it will cause the short term fuel trim and the long term fuel trim to be dramatically off zero where they belong. The short and long term fuel trim is the amount of fuel that the computer is giving to the engine to keep it at 14.7 :1 the optimal fuel ratio. A leak would most likely cause it to go High as it is trying to add fuel to get the O2 to come down and the ratio to get to 14.7;1. So that is where the map controller or maf controller comes in what most of these people are doing like you said they have a small or large vaccuum leak becasue of a sub standard container or bad valve which will make the map go to hell. The MAF will do the same thing if your connection in the inlet before your throttle plates is not sealed properly it will also cause the car to run lean becasue you have a controlled vacccum leak. Then when they install the adjuster they can control the leak with the computer so then bam they get an increase and dont car about the leak any more. I think that this is why people dont see a change most of the time unless they use one of these. Then there are those who see a change with out this magical device so does that mean that they built a better container? or are they just lucky? I dont know food for thought though.

hydrotinkerer
09-09-2008, 10:10 PM
I agree a unmetered vacuum leak affects fuel trim numbers. You can hook a scanner to vehicle and unhook a vacuum hose as small as 1/8" and it changes fuel trim numbers. I would also like to know if anyone is running a cell w/o a vent valve hooked to throttle vacuum and not manifold vacuum.

justaguy
09-09-2008, 10:21 PM
I agree a unmetered vacuum leak affects fuel trim numbers. You can hook a scanner to vehicle and unhook a vacuum hose as small as 1/8" and it changes fuel trim numbers. I would also like to know if anyone is running a cell w/o a vent valve hooked to throttle vacuum and not manifold vacuum.

I have heard of some doing that and the vacuum collasped their generator. :) I think that is the purpose of the valve on top of the generator, but again thats sorta like having a vacuum leak.